Author Topic: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain  (Read 9707 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« on: October 29, 2007, 11:51:51 am »
Hi everybody  :D

First, I shortened the TOTW, since the question is too long for the headline. For the long version see below  :).

One scene that long bothered me in the movie is their last day on the mountain. After all this time and discussions, I still can't figure out their (re)actions fully and especially Jacks (seemingly?) nonchalance is an enigma to me.

Did Jack and Ennis misunderstand each other's feelings on their last day on the mountain?

Did Jack underrate Ennis's reaction to the news of "Bring them down"? Did he await to see Ennis soon again, or to not even part to begin with? Did Ennis misinterpret Jack's nonchalance? What about Jack's offer to lend money to Ennis? Do you think everything from Ennis coming into the camp to Jack driving away and Ennis crouching down in the alley took place in one day at all? Or maybe in two days?




Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 07:53:03 pm »
I think Jack was resigned to the enevitable departure, in fact he seems to have grown somewhat emotionally, he was much more of a braggart before he and Ennis got together.

Ennis still thought he had another month and was emotionally unprepared for this development. Feelings he had ignored rose to the surface suddenly, and the gut started cramping.

FWIW.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Scott6373

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 12:50:15 pm »
It would seem implausible to me that either one of them, aside from the common knowledge of "queers", knew, or even remotely understood what was happening between them.  Nevertheless, I think they both felt the same way about what had happened (deep down, in the places that neither wanted to go) that summer, and though they could not verbalize what they were feeling, I don't think there was misunderstanding.  In fact, I think they both understood implicitly, that with the end of the summer, came the end of their relationship.  Sure, Jack may have dreamed or hoped, but in neither the book or movie did he say anything that would lead someone to believe that what happened on the mountain would continue.

Offline tamarack

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2007, 07:01:28 am »
but in neither the book or movie did he say anything that would lead someone to believe that what happened on the mountain would continue.

Except, maybe, for "...spare you a loan, bud..." which would kind of imply that there was perhaps an expectation, at least a hope, that they would see each other again - or that the relationship would just continue once they got down. That would account for Jack's nonchalance. Perhaps he didn't see it as an ending, just a change of location, at least at the point in time that he offered to loan the money.

As far as how much time was involved in bringin' 'em down, I've always thought that there had to be one overnight stay, but there isn't anything in the story that would indicate that. (Now, if they were doing it in Alberta I'd say that they could have done it in one day, because the days up there are really long, but in Wyoming? I doubt it.)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 11:46:05 am »
Hi everybody  :D

First, I shortened the TOTW, since the question is too long for the headline. For the long version see below  :).

One scene that long bothered me in the movie is their last day on the mountain. After all this time and discussions, I still can't figure out their (re)actions fully and especially Jacks (seemingly?) nonchalance is an enigma to me.

Did Jack and Ennis misunderstand each other's feelings on their last day on the mountain?

Did Jack underrate Ennis's reaction to the news of "Bring them down"? Did he await to see Ennis soon again, or to not even part to begin with? Did Ennis misinterpret Jack's nonchalance? What about Jack's offer to lend money to Ennis? Do you think everything from Ennis coming into the camp to Jack driving away and Ennis crouching down in the alley took place in one day at all? Or maybe in two days?




I too have wondered about those last two days during and after "shove down". I have long wished that Jack had been more agressive and at least asked for a contact number for Ennis, or given him his Dad's address in Lightening Flat. Perhaps his offer of a loan as an indirect attempt at a continuing connection. He didn't count on Ennis's wounded pride, "I ain't in the poor house,you know!".I don't see Jack as entirely nonchalant about the parting.It really hurts to see the pain in Jacks face as he drives away from Ennis and watches Ennis in the rearview mirror. And of course Ennis's brutal reaction to Jack's playing rodeo and later to heaving in the alley show that he had very deep emotions at play.  I think the reason neither could make the move to keep a permanent connection alive back in 1963 was their mutual denial. As long as their love was on the mountain top only, a "one-shot thing", they could both deny being "queer". But love is a "force of nature" and they did reconnect!!! And, eventually, if you live long enough you can begin to accept yourself. Perhaps that was the direction in which Jack had moved by the time of his murder in 1983. If only Ennis could have begun the journey while Jack was alive.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 03:41:00 pm »
I don't see Jack as entirely nonchalant about the parting.It really hurts to see the pain in Jacks face as he drives away from Ennis and watches Ennis in the rearview mirror.

Oh, of course you're right here. Jack did not seem nonchalant at all once they were at the parking lot. "You do this again next summer?" "I might be back..." And that look on his face. No, not indifferent at all.
What I meant where his actions when Ennis comes into the camp and Jack breaks the news to him. He first tells about his uncle and only casually mentions that Aguirre said "Bring 'em down". Even when Ennis clearly is upset about it and asks why, he stays unconcerned (storm moving in from the Pacific...).
In this sequence, I still don't get him.

A little later, we see Ennis sulking on the hill and Jack affixing something on his horse. He looks over to Ennis, takes his lariat and then we see him in close-up:

 

Again: not nonchalant and indifferent, but thinking and caring. There I think they clearly misunderstand each other: Jack wants to cheer Ennis up, but Ennis is not accessible to this attempt at all. I believe Ennis can't understand why Jack was first so indifferent about the news (I can't understand it either) and then is so seemingly in a good and playful mood. Like he had no worry in the world. Whereas Ennis is totally confliced and clearly shows it. I think from Ennis's POV Jack seems unconcerned and therefore insensitive. Big misunderstanding, imo.

Offline tamarack

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 06:58:42 pm »
He first tells about his uncle and only casually mentions that Aguirre said "Bring 'em down". Even when Ennis clearly is upset about it and asks why, he stays unconcerned (storm moving in from the Pacific...).

then is so seemingly in a good and playful mood. Like he had no worry in the world. 

I agree that Ennis is really caught off guard by this turn of events. His attitude and actions are a lot clearer than Jack's. But I think that what I quoted above is just one more indication that, as far as Jack was concerned, this was not the end of the relationship. It wasn't until Ennis reacted the way he did that Jack starting trying to hold on to what he then knew was slipping away (by taking Ennis' shirt, since he wasn't feeling too confident any more about having Ennis, and then the hesitant, but hopeful, suggestion about next summer.)

Offline huntinbuddy

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 12:04:54 am »
I took quite a bit away from that whole scene from where Ennis comes down from watching the sheep and Jack is taking down the tent, and tells Ennis in what seemed rather nonchalant that Aguirre says bring 'em down. 

Ennis gets all bent out of shape, not so much about Jacks comment about money, because he knows that he won't be seeing Jack after they leave the mountain.  Ennis knows the romantic feelings he has for Jack have no place in the "real world", as he understands it.  So when Ennis hears they have to leave early, he thinks it's over.

Jack on the other hand is less upset, because he's under the impression they will continue to see each other somehow, such as "doing this again next summer."  Jack was always the optimistic one, he believes, however naively, that what they started and had together up on Brokeback will continue on in the "real world."
 
 

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2007, 08:05:25 pm »
I took quite a bit away from that whole scene from where Ennis comes down from watching the sheep and Jack is taking down the tent, and tells Ennis in what seemed rather nonchalant that Aguirre says bring 'em down. 

Ennis gets all bent out of shape, not so much about Jacks comment about money, because he knows that he won't be seeing Jack after they leave the mountain.  Ennis knows the romantic feelings he has for Jack have no place in the "real world", as he understands it.  So when Ennis hears they have to leave early, he thinks it's over.

Jack on the other hand is less upset, because he's under the impression they will continue to see each other somehow, such as "doing this again next summer."  Jack was always the optimistic one, he believes, however naively, that what they started and had together up on Brokeback will continue on in the "real world."
 
 


Great comments, but don't underestimate Ennis's pride about "not being in the poorhouse". That comment on his part is included in the story along with the earlier comments about growing up in poverty after the "bank took the ranch" for a reason. Ennis really felt defensive about this issue. Remember later in 1977 Ennis is shown as irritated when Jack is talking about Lureen's financial manipulations, and later in 1983 in their final painful scene together, he reminds Jack that he (Ennis) still has to work to pay off child support. But,I agree that Ennis clearly is feeling confusion and anger at his impending departure from Jack. Does Jack realistically hope to see Ennis again, next summer. I'm not so sure, if he had realistic hopes, wouldn't he have asked for an address to write Ennis a line, or maybe asked the date of the wedding. I think the offer of the loan was in his mind his last hope to keep in touch with Ennis. If he had advanced Ennis some money, he would have had expectations that Ennis would pay it back and be forced to contact him. Now that begs the question, where is Jack getting this extra money? Jack wasn't rolling in the dough either. I think he was desperate to see Ennis, but Jack's pride and denial kept him from being more straightforward in forcing the issue of exchanging addresses or telephone numbers. Jack couldn't face rejection. That is why the scene when Jack drives away and sees the fading mirror image of Ennis is so powerful to me. I want to cry out, "STOP, turn around and make sure that you keep in contact with Ennis!" 

Offline tenn_man

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Re: TOTW 13/07: Their last day on the mountain
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2007, 01:27:16 am »
Could it be that they are just 19 or 20 years old , and have not fully stepped into the shoes of experienced adult people like ourselves, who are trying to place rational reasons on all of their actions??  Speaking for myself, I did many things at that age that would now seem odd, or impetuous.  I think men, especially under their circumstances and in 1963, might well do and say the things that they did.  I think Ennis was hurt and confused, and I think Jack was using whatever familiar means he knew (lasso), to reach out and grab Ennis.  It was a simple gesture, at first meant to say "I love you and want you to be with me"  or, " Hey, its not so bad, we still have each other", and in the turmoil of youthful innocence, turned into the playful brawl of boys.  Two men, very young, unable to cope with their feelings, expressing adult emotions, but not yet skilled.  Many of us have been through this.   I do not see the  same hidden meanings in these scenes as others suggest.  To me it is very simple.  I feel what they feel.  They express it as boys do.  The simple emotion is still beautiful at this point of the movie.  The shirts are a testament to the this youthful innocent bliss. One of the most powerful statements from beginning to end.
He is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream...lets a panel of the dream slide forward...If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.