Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 3506768 times)

Offline NavyVet

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6390 on: November 06, 2006, 11:47:48 pm »

How do you people get your betas?
any advices please

At the time, I advertised on a Yahoo fanfic group I belonged to and put 'searching for Beta' in the subject line for my post.  I think 3 or 4 people responded.  We exchanged e-mails and I picked one.  She has beta'd for me for almost 3 years now and she's awesome!  I've been very lucky.
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Offline notBastet

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6391 on: November 07, 2006, 12:32:00 am »
Hi all!

I am finally caught up on my chapters... never thought it would happen.  I am however, giving up on catching up on the gazillion of pages of the thread, and have just jumped right in to the Dupree speculation...

Love reading everyone's ideas.

Am I the only one with sympathy for Jeeves?  And of course, I feel awful bad for Jeremy... hopefully life will start looking better for him soon...
“It can be a little distressing to have to overintellectualize yourself” - Heath Ledger

Offline NavyVet

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6392 on: November 07, 2006, 12:54:59 am »
OMG, I was just watching an old episode of CSI: Miami and the girl that played Junior was a guest star.
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Offline magicmountain

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6393 on: November 07, 2006, 02:06:57 am »
Coming down the mountain – from Brokeback to Laramie

Earlier in the year when I was right in the midst of Brokeback fever, a fellow sufferer wrote the following:

I want to get over this film so I can get on with my real life. But I also don't want to let these characters go. If I think about them, I can keep them alive. If I stop thinking about them, they'll just fade away. That's a tragedy I don't want to live with either.

I posted the following reply which I hoped reassured this person

Don't worry. They ain't leaving anytime soon. We have already absorbed them by osmosis. This film is like an enzyme. Once it gets into your system and you have the appropriate receptors it goes to work on your psyche like yeast in dough. ... At the appropriate stage in this process I will get back to more normal living. I will be a different person but I'll be taking the boys with me. Just like Joe Aguirre's sheep got mixed up with some of the Chilean mob, I'll be bringing down some woollies with the EJ brand.

Well I finally did come down from the mountain and I did the bring boys with me – I had no choice because I had indeed absorbed them and their story. So what is this mountain I, and others are coming down from? And what does this involve?

To me Brokeback Mountain – the entire film not just the mountain – is a place of the mind, emotions and spirit. It is an inspiring and awesome place, a transformative place - but it is also an extremely painful place to be for reasons we all know too well. On one level the film was about a love relationship between two people – a difficult and deep bond existing under worse than difficult conditions – but nevertheless it was a relationship as we understand the term. On another level for me Jack and Ennis’ relationship was not quite of this world. At a symbolic level it represented something spiritual – the soul finding it’s beloved and thereby achieving wholeness.

At this level Brokeback Mountain represented even greater pain than the mere relationship level of two lovers parted – for it involved a kind of spiritual disconnection in which Ennis wandered in the wilderness, partly of his own making and partly of the world’s making. Jack represented the water of life (hope, love, happiness, union with the spiritual dimension) in this parched landscape that Ennis thirsted for but would not drink. Emotionally I wandered around in the Brokeback wilderness with Ennis for months on end, longing for Jack’s return. It seems like a psychological template which mirrors one's own situation in some subtle and perhaps more generalised way. Whatever effect the film was having on me, I knew that accepting Jack’s death was an essential part of the process. But accepting his death was unbearable.

I firmly believe that accepting Jack’s death is the hurdle to get over rather than accepting an inevitable lonely fate for Ennis. Jack’s death is the body blow that makes you to feel the the loss of something precious and the knowledge of just how precious the thing lost was. A sufi poet once wrote: “Do not grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.” It is this hope that sustains me in my own life and I believe Jack more than anything stood for hope. I feel intuitively that our longing for Jack is really a longing for love, happiness and spiritual fulfilment.

At some point, as I predicted, it was time for me to come down from the mountain. Just as Brokeback Mountain provided the environment to make a meditative journey within, I needed a pathway out back to normal life. Ennis needed that pathway too. As the Buddhists say “first enlightenment and then the laundry”.

The road to Laramie provided that pathway for both of us. We both needed to feel normal again! Having experienced the spiritual heights represented by his relationship with Jack, Ennis needed to come back to earth and apply what he had learnt and have a normal, everyday relationship, go to work, come home and cook and get on with his life. Much of what Ennis had lost with Jack did come around in another form in Ellery. Ellery has the same loving nature and emotional maturity as Jack. He has the same patience with Ennis as Jack.

But as the story makes clear, Ellery can never be a replacement for Jack. What Jack represents belongs fundamentally in the spiritual realm. You can never forget someone like Jack and some part of you will always yearn for him. That is true for Ennis. It is true for me and true for many of the readers of this story. Jack also represents joy, love and hope in this life. In seeking those things in the earthly realm with Ellery, I believe Ennis - and the readers of this story - are honouring what Jack stands for in his life and ours.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 06:59:57 am by magicmountain »
Remember upon the conduct of each depends the fate of all. - Alexander the Great

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6394 on: November 07, 2006, 03:01:55 am »
Jo,
thank you so much for your thoughts and hopes.
i'll treasure your words.
We are indeed coming down from the mountain and moving on...
 :)

Fabienne
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline RonitR

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6395 on: November 07, 2006, 03:15:22 am »
Hi all!

Am I the only one with sympathy for Jeeves? 

Nope, I'm right there with you.

I really respect his behaviour - he made it very clear that he is interested in Jeremy, but is stil the perfect gentlemen - he doesn't push, accepts "no" as no, doesn't try to manipulate or take advantage of Jeremy's confusion and depression - he really is a good friend...

His comment about "not being a gentlemen but knowing to play the part" just broke my heart. If a "gentlemen" is judged by his behaviour rather than his social status - Jeeves is every inch a gentlemen...

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see...


Offline RonitR

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6396 on: November 07, 2006, 05:45:57 am »
Hi MagicMountain,

Thank you for your words - they are beautiful.

I too wandered on top of my own mountain, and I, too, finally had to come down to get on with RL. It's so reassuring to know that I am not alone in the  experience.

However - I will never, can never, accepts Jack's death in the context of the film.  :'(

You so eloquently captured the essence of the film's tragedy IMHO  "Jack represented the water of life (hope, love, happiness, union with the spiritual dimension) in this parched landscape that Ennis thirsted for but would not drink" . Ennis is unable to grasp what was being offered to him - until it is much too late.

I have the film on DVD, but still stop it after their final confrontation. Can't bear to re-watch what happened afterwards, especially knowing how it will end, Jack's death, Ennis heartbreak and loneliness (and a too late realization of what Jack had actually meant for him, felt for him....)

Offline souxi

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6397 on: November 07, 2006, 05:58:53 am »
Hi all - I decided that I've been lurking here long enough and it was time to join in the fun, especially all the discussion about who Dupree should get together with.

Here's my suggestion, which you can throw around as much as you like - Louise, have you considered the story-line possibility that Dupree's car gets engine problems, and Ennis advises Dupree to takes it to his trusty radiator repairman, Nate?  Dupree and Nate together could almost be a mirroring of Ellery and Ennis, perhaps?

Comments, anyone?

Well hello Richard, welcome to Bettermost. Nice to have you with us. You,ll meet June eventually.  ::) ::) Mornin June huni. ;) :-* Mornin peeps. I,ts a really foggy day today..had to put my headlights on to take the kids to school. I love all this speculation about Dupree. I cant really decide who his "first time" should be with tbh. I,ll just wait and see what fiendish plot Louise comes up with. I know it,ll be fiendish because she keeps doing her evil laughs lol. And then you just KNOW she,s up to something. ;) ;) ;) ;D :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 07, 2006, 06:04:26 am by souxi »

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6398 on: November 07, 2006, 06:09:33 am »
Nope, I'm right there with you.

I really respect his behaviour - he made it very clear that he is interested in Jeremy, but is stil the perfect gentlemen - he doesn't push, accepts "no" as no, doesn't try to manipulate or take advantage of Jeremy's confusion and depression - he really is a good friend...

His comment about "not being a gentlemen but knowing to play the part" just broke my heart. If a "gentlemen" is judged by his behaviour rather than his social status - Jeeves is every inch a gentlemen...

Oh well, we'll have to wait and see...



I'm right there with you. Perfectly worded, thanks  :)

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #6399 on: November 07, 2006, 06:15:22 am »
You can never forget someone like Jack and some part of you will always yearn for him. That is true for Ennis. It is true for me and true for many of the readers of this story. Jack also represents joy, love and hope in this life. In seeking those things in the earthly realm with Ellery, I believe Ennis - and the readers of this story - are honouring what Jack stands for in his life and ours.

OH God Jo, this part made me cry my eyes out  :'(

I'll NEVER forget Jack, ever. He will always be in my heart. Thank you