Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 3166450 times)

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1990 on: July 21, 2006, 07:37:54 am »
i wasnt aware that X-Men required nakididity.  Now Hugh Jackman plucked is something I might pay to see.  I wonder if it isin theaters in Germany....
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline RonitR

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1991 on: July 21, 2006, 08:22:20 am »
Re: Gabe  & Ellery's ex's

Ellery's ex's keep bouncing back like a series of bad checks…
I am constantly amazed at what bad love- life decisions a smart, well-educated man like Ellery kept making (excluding Ennis, naturally).
Beagle the disappearing nut-case, Bill the self-centered pornographer, Gabe (who someone referred to earlier as a "real class-act"..  ;D )

I am really not criticizing here…till I met my hubby, I had a decade of going from Mr. Wrong, to Mr. WRONG!!, to Mr. Are you Kidding Me????. :o

Maybe its' even one of the things I love about this series, the complexity and "real-life" flaws of the main characters, which (to me) make them so much more appealing.

Just wandering, though.
How  did Ellery, who had such a bad track record in picking lovers, manage to choose  Ennis ?...



Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1992 on: July 21, 2006, 09:09:16 am »
Re: Gabe  & Ellery's ex's

Ellery's ex's keep bouncing back like a series of bad checks…
I am constantly amazed at what bad love- life decisions a smart, well-educated man like Ellery kept making (excluding Ennis, naturally).
Beagle the disappearing nut-case, Bill the self-centered pornographer, Gabe (who someone referred to earlier as a "real class-act"..  ;D )

I am really not criticizing here…till I met my hubby, I had a decade of going from Mr. Wrong, to Mr. WRONG!!, to Mr. Are you Kidding Me????. :o

Maybe its' even one of the things I love about this series, the complexity and "real-life" flaws of the main characters, which (to me) make them so much more appealing.

Just wandering, though.
How  did Ellery, who had such a bad track record in picking lovers, manage to choose  Ennis ?...




I am sure Louise will chime in...

The one I really wonder about is Bill. Beagle I can understand, having been in college and understanding that situational/opportunity thing--and it might have stayed that way if Ellery hadn't fallen so hard. Gabe was a one night stand and Ellery admits that. But Bill? Bill was around for four years, Ellery bought the bar and made him an operating partner, obviously there was something there. He's the one I don't understand.

As for Ennis, I think Ellery has been waiting his whole life for Ennis to come along, and he finally did.

Leslie
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1993 on: July 21, 2006, 09:10:23 am »
Very good question.  I have had people ask me the question, "How could someone who is so together, have so many bad exes?" 

Well, I think you know the answer to that question for yourself, Ronit.  Just because someone is in a good place NOW, or has their life in working order and has a lot of wonderful qualities, does NOT mean they think straight with their choice of partners.  Ellery's involvement with Beagle was a clinging juvenile event in his teens.  How many people haven't had one of those?

His relationship with Bill was when Bill wasn't (yet) as far as we know, an opportunistic teen pornographer, and his relationship started out, at least, as a professional one.  Even though they were together for a number of years, it does not seem like Ellery ever really believed Bill was "the one."  They had a common goal, the running of the bar and a commitment to the infant gay community.

His er, relationship with Gabe... well, wasn't much of a relationship... it was more of an extended one night stand that Gabe took a whole lot more seriously than Ellery did, and like many "travelling salesmen" he showed up again like a bad penny.

Yes, part of the design behind this is to give Ellery a checkered history with false starts and insufficient love relationships.  It is also, if I may be so bold as to quote Dan Savage, the gay sex columnist, a fair representation of what kind of relationship possibilities are on offer for a still-hated sexual minority.  Most gays are, by virtue of their unaccepted status, wounded people.  Dan compared them to a population of Vietnam vets.... and on the dating scene, one has to choose among the least damaged of damaged goods, and a healthy and well adjusted gay partner is about as rare as those spotted owls.

However, is this really so much different from heterosexual life, when you get down to it?  With a 60% divorce rate in America, one might argue that these considerations might well apply to the larger population.

As far as Ennis goes, we should not forget his flaws.  His is still homophobic.  He hides his sexual preference from most people and still shuns affection in public.  He has only got half a foot out of the closet, something most open gays in 2006  would find intolerable in a partner.  He has an ex wife and children, no education to speak of, is wildly jealous of anyone paying too much personal attention to Ellery, and is prejudiced about Ellery appearing "too queer" in public.  He would hit the roof if Ellery put an earring in his ear again, for example.  He is still grieving Jack, and carries the guilt and pain of the past.  That having been said, he is a considerate and passionate lover (this is a romance, after all), keeps the house neat, pulls his own weight, doesn't crumple up and act girly, and so far, has not been chased away by the increasingly intrusive demands of Ellery's job.  He isn't the perfect partner by any means.  But he is a darn sight more human and responsible and loving than the ones Ellery has had before.  Perfect?  Not a chance!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1994 on: July 21, 2006, 09:35:17 am »
Congratulations Louise and Leslie!!!

I'm really happy and pleased  :)

This is wonderful news!

Louise - how the hell can you fit this into your already busy schedule?? It won't interfere with updates will it?!?  :P ;D :-*

Offline opinionista

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1995 on: July 21, 2006, 09:35:44 am »
Very good question.  I have had people ask me the question, "How could someone who is so together, have so many bad exes?" 


You know, I consider myself a together person in a lot of aspect of my life. (You can't be a together person in all of them, I think), and I have had my share of shitty boyfriends. This happens to a lot of people.  I mean, hasn't any of you looked back and think, how in hell did I get ever get involved with such a jerk in the first place? Love and lust make you do stupid things. That's a truth.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1996 on: July 21, 2006, 09:42:28 am »
Congratulations Louise and Leslie!!!

I'm really happy and pleased  :)

This is wonderful news!

Louise - how the hell can you fit this into your already busy schedule?? It won't interfere with updates will it?!?  :P ;D :-*

updates?  UPDATES?  oh my, I forgot about making updates!

I will make an update in about 3 hours.  When I finish doing software development!  Those crazy people still expect me to WORK!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1997 on: July 21, 2006, 10:00:12 am »
updates?  UPDATES?  oh my, I forgot about making updates!

I will make an update in about 3 hours.  When I finish doing software development!  Those crazy people still expect me to WORK!
Oh Louise - sometimes you are such a tease!! *grin*

Whoooo - hoooo!! 3 hours!! I'll be having dinner..... :(

Offline Bigheart

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1998 on: July 21, 2006, 10:10:23 am »
and I have had my share of shitty boyfriends. This happens to a lot of people.  I mean, hasn't any of you looked back and think, how in hell did I get ever get involved with such a jerk in the first place? Love and lust make you do stupid things. That's a truth.
Oh yes, I've had my share too. They are usually not 'shits' when you first start seeing them...or at least you're not able to see things clearly in the beginning. And oh yes to the love and lust combination!

Offline Jane

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #1999 on: July 21, 2006, 10:36:20 am »
QUOTE:I will make an update in about 3 hours.  When I finish doing software development!  Those crazy people still expect me to WORK!QUOTE:


Work??? but but, you cant let real life interfere with Ennis and Ellery!! :o :o :o  Throw a sicky, say it,s an emergency. ;)
Congratulations to you and Leslie btw,well done.  Now then... about those updates versus real life?? ;) ;) ;)
Always and forever. J&E.xx