Would Ennis Commit Suicide?

[David]

Tell you what,  I have to stop reading this particular thread.          

[serious crayons]

I'm sorry, David. 

What I am saying is, despite his love for Jack and his attraction to men, he does not see homosexuality as being “normal.” In this regard, he hates his feelings. IMO, he never comes to terms with or accepts his homosexuality. That’s a matter of debate … but that is my opinion.

I'm sorry to you, Diane, for dragging this out. But I'm still confused. I understand that you believe his experiences during the movie don't CHANGE his hatred of homosexuality (I disagree, but I do understand what you're saying). What I don't understand is why the thought of Jack being murdered would make him hate homosexuality even MORE. Make him more fearful, sure. But why would it make him more hateful?

[jpwagoneer1964]

Sorry Katie to hear about you dad.

I think Jack's love would have sustained Ennis. He was used to "standing it"  throughout his whole life.

The shirts would have be a reminder of all the good memories with Jack and that he experienced true love in his life.

[dly64]

David – I am sorry you feel you have to stop reading this thread. But you gotta do what you gotta do!

I'm sorry to you, Diane, for dragging this out. But I'm still confused. I understand that you believe his experiences during the movie don't CHANGE his hatred of homosexuality (I disagree, but I do understand what you're saying). What I don't understand is why the thought of Jack being murdered would make him hate homosexuality even MORE. Make him more fearful, sure. But why would it make him more hateful?

Maybe the word “hatred” is too strong. I don’t even know that we are completely disagreeing. Ennis believes that Jack’s sexuality got him (Jack) murdered. The teachings of Ennis’ childhood are instilled in his belief system. He is ambivalent about loving a man and being attracted to men. As time goes on, Ennis becomes more and more embittered. In some weird way, I think Ennis feels responsible for Jack’s death. In Ennis’ mind …had he been able to accept his own sexuality and make a life with Jack … Jack wouldn’t have died on the road alone (drowning in his own blood). So, maybe the appropriate description would be that Ennis hated himself.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I'm sorry, David. 

I'm sorry to you, Diane, for dragging this out. But I'm still confused. I understand that you believe his experiences during the movie don't CHANGE his hatred of homosexuality (I disagree, but I do understand what you're saying). What I don't understand is why the thought of Jack being murdered would make him hate homosexuality even MORE. Make him more fearful, sure. But why would it make him more hateful?

We are talking internalized homophobia here, aren't we? I'm sure this is going to seem twisted and illogical, and I don't think I can even explain it, but I am getting a kind of visceral, gut-reaction type of feeling that I understand that Ennis could come to hate "being gay" even more because he believes that Jack's "being gay" has cost him (Ennis) the one person he loved--Jack. It's as though Ennis might see "being gay," rather than a tire iron, as being ultimately responsbile for Jack's death, so that it could increase his own internalized homophobia--his own hatred of "being gay."

[moremojo]

The shirts would have be a reminder of all the good memories with Jack and that he experienced true love in his life.

And what a remarkable blessing that love was, for both men. How many of us will be able to honestly say, at the close of our mortal lives, that we found a love half as intense or soul-searing as that between Ennis and Jack? Ennis may be materially poor at story's end, but he has an emotional treasure that even kings could not fathom.

[moremojo]

So, maybe the appropriate description would be that Ennis hated himself.

I most emphatically agree here.

[dly64]

We are talking internalized homophobia here, aren't we? I'm sure this is going to seem twisted and illogical, and I don't think I can even explain it, but I am getting a kind of visceral, gut-reaction type of feeling that I understand that Ennis could come to hate "being gay" even more because he believes that Jack's "being gay" has cost him (Ennis) the one person he loved--Jack. It's as though Ennis might see "being gay," rather than a tire iron, as being ultimately responsbile for Jack's death, so that it could increase his own internalized homophobia--his own hatred of "being gay."

Jeff - you have beautifully put into words what I have been trying to express but was unable to do so. Thanks!

[Shakesthecoffecan]

All interesting posts and takes on life without Jack. I tend to think he would not directly take his own life, he was a though old bird, but I think in a way he would end up taking his life with alcohol and cigarettes. I think over all his life would have been shorter, and sadder.

[nakymaton]

...Ennis...