gay vikings- could it be true...

[milomorris]

I'm curious about this. Where have these finds been made? During which time of the viking period were they buried? Could you link us to any articles or archeological websites about it?

Yes, sopy. Please let us know where to find more about this. This is exciting.

[delalluvia]

 

new studies shown that being gay aint just something new in our time, even the vikings celebrated being gay. People who have studied viking graves and found gay burials. People with same sex holding hands. And in other burials women have been decorating in mens cloths and men decorating in womens cloths. There are even vikings stories that have been written down who talks about samesex relationsship.

Hearing this made me so happy that I felt I need to start a thread on this subject.

While it could be gay people, and I'm not saying they aren't and I certainly don't deny gay people have been around as long as humans have, we shouldn't jump to any conclusions.  

Women sleeping with women friends and men sleeping with men friends platonically was quite common in the 19th century.  Women holding hands and being affectionate with each other was quite common then and now.  In several countries, up until very recently, it was quite common to see men holding hands in public with each other without any sexual connotations being associated with the actions.

They could be siblings, or they could be adopted brothers or they could have some other sort of bond.

Maybe the cross-dress was an insult to the person, maybe it was an honor (i.e. maybe a man was disgraced and forced to wear women's clothes, maybe a woman proved herself in battle and won the 'honor' of dressing as a man).

Context is everything.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I'm curious about this. Where have these finds been made? During which time of the viking period were they buried? Could you link us to any articles or archeological websites about it?

I must admit that I am surprised, given the Norse laws' and Norse literary sources' seemingly firm bias against homosexuality (and against men wearing women's clothes and vice versa). My first guess would have been that these persons in the graves were siblings or "blood-brothers", but if DNA has confirmed they were not related, there certainly is room for new interpretations of the Vikings!

Sure enough. The Vikings were Androphiles for sure.

 

[milomorris]

Sure enough. The Vikings were Androphiles for sure.

 

I'm sure that some homosexual Vikings could be described as androphiles.

[Sophia]

some info I found in english about vikings and there view on sexuality...


The evidence of the sagas and laws shows that male homosexuality was regarded in two lights: there was nothing at all strange or shameful about a man having intercourse with another man if he was in the active or "manly" role, however the passive partner in homosexual intercourse was regarded with derision. It must be remembered, however, that the laws and sagas reflect the Christian consciousness of the Icelander or Norwegian of the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, well after the pagan period. The myths and legends show that honored gods and heroes were believed to have taken part in homosexual acts, which may indicate that pre-Christian Viking Scandinavia was more tolerant of homosexuality, and history is altogether silent as to the practice of lesbianism in the Viking Age.

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/gayvik.shtml

[louisev]

Sure enough. The Vikings were Androphiles for sure.

 

as a direct descendant of the William I of Britain and his illustrious ancestors the kings of Kvenland and the princesses of Normandy I can tell you that there was not a single androphile among them.  As warriors there were gay as three dollar bills and did their duty to produce heirs of dubious sexuality, and we their descendants bear the stamp of their preversion.

[milomorris]

as a direct descendant of the William I of Britain and his illustrious ancestors the kings of Kvenland and the princesses of Normandy I can tell you that there was not a single androphile among them.  As warriors there were gay as three dollar bills and did their duty to produce heirs of dubious sexuality, and we their descendants bear the stamp of their preversion.

Are you saying that these guys were effeminate? Or that they were part of a subculture that had its own sensibilities distinct from other men?

Your description of warriors sounds more like the Spartans and less like a gay pride parade.

[milomorris]

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/gayvik.shtml

Thank you VERY much for this, sopy.

The following indicates that Vikings were OK with man2man sex as long as homosexual men still behaved like other men in daily life. That's the basics of androphilia.

Homosexuality was not regarded by the Viking peoples as being evil, perverted, innately against the laws of nature or any of the other baggage about the concept that Christian belief has provided Western culture. Rather, it was felt that a man who subjected himself to another in sexual affairs would do the same in other areas, being a follower rather than a leader, and allowing others to do his thinking or fighting for him. Thus, homosexual sex was not what was condemned, but rather the failure to stand for one's self and make one's own decisions, to fight one's own fights, which went directly against the Nordic ethic of self-reliance. (Sørenson 20).

[Jeff Wrangler]

History is altogether silent as to the practice of lesbianism in the Viking Age.

Does anybody know anything about the position of women in Viking society? If women were more or less seen as "property" of their menfolk, I'm not too surprised if there is no surviving record of lesbianism. If women were "just another species of property," I would think that lesbianism would be below the male radar. Men made the laws and wrote the histories.

[louisev]

Does anybody know anything about the position of women in Viking society? If women were more or less seen as "property" of their menfolk, I'm not too surprised if there is no surviving record of lesbianism. If women were "just another species of property," I would think that lesbianism would be below the male radar. Men made the laws and wrote the histories.

Not a chance.  the reason the Vikings were so successful at conquest is that, like Rosie the Riveter and the female empowerment that took place during the New Deal era under Roosevelt that enabled women into professions in the United States previously relegated to men only, Viking society was based upon a polytheistic conception that had both male and female gods and god-warriors including Thor (after which Thursday is named) and Freya (after which Friday is named) and women ran the households and the towns along with male and female elders, year round while men went out to fish, conquer and plunder.  They were also responsible for the agriculture and government.  It's modern America where you find this "woman's place is in the home" nonsense.  Look to Socialist Scandinavia and New Old Europe for actual equality.

you might wish to read Harry Harrison's historical novels about the Vikings entitled "The Hammer and the Cross Series"

http://www.harryharrison.com/

very well done and I'll vouch for their accuracy...