Christian Domestic Discipline

[serious crayons]

I gather you’d like a clarification, so here it is:

I mean that women who have benefitted from over 150 years of feminism, a legacy left to them by women who faced jail, ostracism and assaults just to be able to vote let alone anything else pertaining to women’s rights, but who coyly tell you that ‘I believe in equal rights but I’m not a feminist, you betcha’ deserve no concern from feminists on any occasion they have to deal with sexism.  

If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, or needs to terminate an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy, and she doesn’t have to resort to Preggers Roulette (a/k/a ‘natural family planning’) or a coat hangar, she’s benefitting from feminism, however put off she might be that some feminists don’t shave their legs.  Same goes for a woman who uses a credit card, who buys a house or car in her own name, who becomes a doctor or attorney or is able to divorce an abusive husband.  That’s a legacy that many women, and some far-sighted men, worked and sacrificed for and those people deserve better than to be blown off by those who have benefitted.

It’s a little like your car breaking down on a dark, isolated road in a cold rain and a truck driver picks you up.  He calls a tow truck to take your car to the nearest truck stop and gives you a ride there with the heater in the truck cab going full blast, and even offers to buy you a meal while your car is being repaired.  But on arrival, you tell him that you appreciate his help and you’ll definitely accept the offer of a meal, but can he please sit at a separate table and not let on that you’re with him?  After all, his shoes are muddy and he isn’t exactly young and cute so of course you don’t want to be seen with him; you have your image to think of – surely he understands, right?

OK, thank you, that is much clearer. And well stated. For the most part, I agree.

My one difference would be that IMO, women are either equal or they're not. I don't think I would choose whether to be concerned about some woman's particular situation based on her prior commitment to the cause. If a woman got fired due to sexism, for example, I wouldn't demand that she show me her feminist card before I decided where I stood on her case.

To me, it's mostly semantic whether you call yourself a feminist or a suffragist or a women's libber or an "I'm for equal rights but." But you're right, the reason women live the way they do today is entirely thanks to feminism, whatever word it was going by at the time. All women today should be thankful to the extremely brave and persistent feminists who came before them (and who weren't working, BTW, only on behalf of women who agreed with them).

[Front-Ranger]

For the record, I am a feminist and I shave my legs.

Now, going back to these new (or recycled) views of Christianity, when my daughter decided to get married at the tender age of 22, I told her, "It's okay with me if you marry young, but please wait to have children at least a year or two. Have fun, get to know each other better." I do know that she met with her doctor about birth control and got protection...not pills though. But, she returned from the honeymoon pregnant. When I asked what happened, she just said something vague like "these things happen." Well, I'm afraid that "these things" are going to happen every year of her life if it goes the way her husband plans. 

[milomorris]

Well, I'm afraid that "these things" are going to happen every year of her life if it goes the way her husband plans. 

Her husband will learn soon enough that a paycheck can put food into only so many mouths.

[louisev]

As I stated in my original post in the Feminism thread, my issues with feminism are not human rights issues, they are philosophical issues based upon a view of society that I believe is distorted.  I am not arguing that sexism does not exist, however, I do not accept the view of philosophical feminists who state that there is a conscious war against women by men to keep them subjugated, and that all men oppress all women.  I just don't, and I have seen and known enough men to support my view.

[Front-Ranger]

A long time ago I attended a talk by Paul Hawken at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, where one of the topics was overpopulation. Paul showed a video of the globe, with population centers as lights, then put it through a fast forward from 1900 to the present. It truly took my breath away to see how lit up the globe was, and this was at least ten years ago.

I still remember one comforting thing he said. In all species, the females know instinctively how to deal with overpopulation. They will cease going into estrus, spontaneously abort or in some cases kill and even eat the young. This concept was also discussed in the story Watership Down. When the rabbit warren became overpopulated, fetuses were reabsorbed into the females' bodies before they developed and were born.

This preventive measure was observed in all different kinds of species, Hawken said. But in homo sapiens?? Do females still hold the key to avoiding disastrous overpopulation??

[serious crayons]

As I stated in my original post in the Feminism thread, my issues with feminism are not human rights issues, they are philosophical issues based upon a view of society that I believe is distorted.  I am not arguing that sexism does not exist, however, I do not accept the view of philosophical feminists who state that there is a conscious war against women by men to keep them subjugated, and that all men oppress all women.  I just don't, and I have seen and known enough men to support my view.

I know there are a few feminists who think that way, but the majority do not. I sure don't, and I don't know any feminists who does.

Society as a whole, not men exclusively, and certainly not "all men," is to blame for the subjugation and oppression of women. Though that subjugation has, historically, tended to privilege men, it has also -- as you pointed out in your post on the Feminism thread -- been taught and reinforced by women. (Though unlike you, I don't consider women "at the leading edge of the opposition" to equality. If I had to blame one sex or another, I would not hesitate to place more of the blame on men.)

As for feminism, the Merriam-Webster definition is simple, to the point and, in my view, accurate.

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

[serious crayons]

I still remember one comforting thing he said. In all species, the females know instinctively how to deal with overpopulation. They will cease going into estrus, spontaneously abort or in some cases kill and even eat the young. This concept was also discussed in the story Watership Down. When the rabbit warren became overpopulated, fetuses were reabsorbed into the females' bodies before they developed and were born.

This preventive measure was observed in all different kinds of species, Hawken said. But in homo sapiens?? Do females still hold the key to avoiding disastrous overpopulation??

Sometimes I have wondered whether it's not just a coincidence that certain cultural changes whose byproducts include a lowered birthrate -- women entering the work force in record numbers, the development of more effective birth control, the gay rights movement, women marrying at older ages and putting off having children until they're older -- came at about the same time that people began worrying about overpopulation. Nature works in mysterious ways!

[milomorris]

Sometimes I have wondered whether it's not just a coincidence that certain cultural changes whose byproducts include a lowered birthrate -- women entering the work force in record numbers, the development of more effective birth control, the gay rights movement, women marrying at older ages and putting off having children until they're older -- came at about the same time that people began worrying about overpopulation. Nature works in mysterious ways!

Some people think that homosexuality might be a natural population control element. But I don't see how the gay rights movement would contribute to population control. Especially since gays have been making their own babies lately.

[milomorris]

As for feminism, the Merriam-Webster definition is simple, to the point and, in my view, accurate.

1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

Interesting. Social equality is part of the definition, but legal equality is not.

[louisev]

I think that's what 'political' means in this context, Milo.

Katherine,  if that were organized feminism's definition of feminism, maybe I would be one.  But I have read feminist theorists recently and it goes much, much MUCH deeper than that.