Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond > Brokeback Mountain Open Forum
the big request for HELP from Russia!
southendmd:
--- Quote ---P.S. I haven't wound a way to preset the image's size... but I pretty like that Ennis's smile takes the whole screen to be viewed.
--- End quote ---
I also like an endless Ennis smile. However, if you want to make it smaller, simply add [img width= whatever number you want] and this will limit the photo size.
As I have said, I am very happy to discuss our great film in detail. So, ask away!
southendmd:
Джек — урод.
Jack Nasty!
southendmd:
--- Quote from: southendmd on January 18, 2015, 06:57:13 pm ---
--- End quote ---
^^^^^^^^^^That's my friend Lisa. We're going to New York next weekend to see Jake in his Broadway play "Constellations".
Lisa has met him SEVERAL times, but I have only met him once. He was lovely. And his eyes are REALLY BLUE.
JackFromMoscow:
Hey everybody again! I hope that's my last translation ride.
Paul, have you seen Jake's Broadway play? How was it?
There's not much I don't understand for now, and the text is almost completed.
1) Jack: No more beans.
Shortly speaking, it is Jack asking Ennis not to cook those beans on the supper this evening, right? He asks and then he rides back to the sheep.
2) Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.
3) About the pneumonia again -- I have no translation problems, but is there anyone who could explain why does Aguirre using such strange phrase? Is it sure enough he doesn't imply anything hidden? What exactly has he got in his mind?
4) Jack: [Aguirre] says there's a storm coming, moving in from the Pacific. Worse than this one.
Ennis: That snow barely stuck an hour. Huh?
It sounds like Ennis make his phrase an counter-evidence. But what on Earth could be the correlation between snow and a storm? I mean, it seems like Ennis's saying that if the snow disappear, the storm wouldn't come. We seldom have storms with snow in Moscow here, so maybe I just don't know there IS a correlation :)
5) There is a moment that seems interesting to me.
Ennis: Is Alma here?
Monroe: Yeah, she's in the condiments aisle.
Ennis: The what?
Monroe: Ketchup.
Well, I think that condiments is pretty tricky word with lots of letters — "species" would sound and spell more easily. So when Monroe says "In the condiments aisle", is that right that Ennis didn't't understand (or maybe had just misheard) this word and that is why he re-asks: The what?
You know, that could be a little detail for Ennis's portrait of a "roughneck" man.
6) Ennis: I'll be half the night. Bring home some ground steaks if you think of it.
Why would Alma think of ground steaks? May I translate it like "If you want to", or "I'll try to bring them"?
7) Alma: Okay, we take one more bite, and then you're finished with dinner. There, that's a good bite. All right, you're excused. Please. Thank you.
To be excused means here "You may leave to whereever you want, finally, after finishing dinner, right? And the last three words (Please. Thank you), what do they mean? In russian dubbing it sounds like "Where's your "Thanks [for food]"?" I mean, saying Thanks to the person who cooked after having dinner is a sign of good manners, but Alma Jr, being a child, doesn't care of any manners :)
8) -- Oh, this cowboy with glasses, again =) Eight) Ennis: We might not get back tonight when we get to drinking and talking and all.
May I translate it like this: "We might not get back, 'cause we are going to drink and talk all the night"? Is that a correct sence?
9) There's some questions about their motel dialogue.
Jack: ...Swear to God, I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough. What about you?
Ennis: Me? Mmm. I don't know.
Jack: Old Brokeback got us good, don't it? What are we gonna do now?
Ennis: I doubt there's nothing we can do. So now I'm stuck with what I got here. Making a living is about all I got time for now.
So the first and the main question that makes me really anxious: how exactly do they regard (or what do they thing about) their relationship (connection)?
To get into THIS?? Well, I'l explain. It seems to me that they don't take it seriously, I mean, they think it is just something uncontrollable that happens sometimes. Maybe I don't need your explanations; this forum is quite big and maybe I just need to read some topics to understand. (P.S. I mean, there are some posts about it, but I couldn't read some of topics here with thousands of posts =) So it would be great if someone write the link to those posts.)
I red-lined it all the way. -- What exactly did he red-line, their meeting after four years, or them living together (being GOT into THIS)?
Further question. Brokeback got us good -- It seems the best sence I could figure out, is: "We met each other on Brokeback and the time we spent was amazing. Without Brokeback, we would never met".
The third one. Making a living -- what exactly does that mean? I think Ennis talks about he works much and he needs earning money for his family, so he has extremely little time to spend with Jack.
And fourth. Ennis: The bottom line is, we're around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again...
And again, this thing?! Why does Ennis use word... "THING"? It sounds for me like his relations with Jack is something that he isn't happy about. Or, maybe, the something, that he wants so much but can't keep himself off of.
I would be really happy to understand these questions, they are the most important for me. For me to understand and, of course, for the translation to be exact.
P.S. Yeah, Russian language is quite difficult, but English is difficult as well, sometimes. This goddamn verb "got" could be translated in 500 different ways :)
10) Here are some interesting moments I've found, either.
Alma: Ennis. As far behind as we are on the bills, it makes me nervous not to take no precaution.
Ennis: If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone.
Alma: I'd have them, if you'd support them.
As far behind as we are on the bills -- What exactly does it mean? a) They just have a lot of bills that should be paid out; b) they just have a lot of bills (I mean, the fact they have got them is the mainest here); or c) there's no money to pay those bills out, no matter how much bills they got, they couldn't pay out any of them.
Those nuances are quite important for translating, 'cause I can't translate this part of the phrase (as far behind as we are) in word-to-word way.
The next one here: I'd have them, if you'd support them. I can fugure out two sences here, which make this scene quite different. First: Is Alma talking about that in fact she wants more children, but as Ennis doesn't earn much money, they just can't afford them? And second: Maybe those words are expressing their extremely quick decision to devorce? «-- I'd be happy to leave you alone -- Sure, I'll take our girls (Alma Jr. and Jenny) if you would pay monthly child support.» -- And then they turn themselves back to each other, that means they accept their decision and there's no way back?
11) Alma: So, one night, I got your creel case open night before you went on one of your little trips.
Oh this verb again. Was it accidentally, that she had found his case opened, or she had opened it on purpose?
12) Ennis: That don't mean nothing, Alma.
"This is not what you're thinking about, Alma [you're wrong about it, you misunderstand it]" -- is that a good sence? I would really like to translate this phrase like that underlined part.
13) Ennis: Well, you got a better idea?
Jack: I did, once.
Please, say, Jack means that he several times (not once) proposed to Ennis to live together, "ranch somewhere", move to Texas... right? If he talks about Mexico (We ought to go to Mexico -- That's the idea), it would just break my heart.
14) You have no idea how bad it gets.
Would be this phrase: "You have no idea how bad I felt! [without you/or with other men, by the way?]" good equivalent to the original one? (Again! this verb "got" :-/)
15) Ennis: I was probably no fun anyways, was l?
Cassie: Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun.
This scene is quite confusing for me. "I was no fun" -- it means, that he's not as funny and happy as she was, so she doesn't [deserve -- dunno how to say] living with such depressed person, or something (That she's too young and he's old already)? And what does she mean by her answer? "Fun is NOT what girls do love; I fell in love with you because of some other reasons?" -- does she mean exactly that?
Oh. This all is very difficult. Very, very difficult project. But I enjoy it.
I'd be happy to see your explanations here. Thanks! ;)
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---
1) Jack: No more beans.
Shortly speaking, it is Jack asking Ennis not to cook those beans on the supper this evening, right? He asks and then he rides back to the sheep.
--- End quote ---
This is a tricky one. The way I interpreted it was that Jack preferred meat but Ennis was content with beans. But Ennis wanted to please Jack, so he shot an elk for him and they enjoyed the meat. In the same way, Jack wanted Ennis to continue the intimacy with him and not just be content with the status quo. So, I think he was speaking metaphorically here.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---2) Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.
--- End quote ---
The forest service owns the land and they want to keep it as wild as possible. Having little tents all over the place despoils the land so they just allowed tents on allotments.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---3) About the pneumonia again -- I have no translation problems, but is there anyone who could explain why does Aguirre using such strange phrase? Is it sure enough he doesn't imply anything hidden? What exactly has he got in his mind?
--- End quote ---
I'm assuming you mean "Not unless you can cure pneumonia". Aguirre means to say that even though Jack's mom made Aguirre ride up and tell Jack that his uncle had pneumonia, it didn't mean that Aguirre was going to allow Jack to leave the mountain to see his uncle. To Aguirre, it wouldn't make any difference to the uncle's health whether Jack was with him or not, since Jack couldn't cure pneumonia. When Aguirre said this, it was the second reference to Jack supposedly working miracles. The previous summer, Aguirre got mad at Jack about sheep being struck by lightning, as if, Jack said "I could control the weather". This was an element of the parallels to Christ that are present in the movie and book.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---4) Jack: [Aguirre] says there's a storm coming, moving in from the Pacific. Worse than this one.
Ennis: That snow barely stuck an hour. Huh?
It sounds like Ennis make his phrase an counter-evidence. But what on Earth could be the correlation between snow and a storm? I mean, it seems like Ennis's saying that if the snow disappear, the storm wouldn't come. We seldom have storms with snow in Moscow here, so maybe I just don't know there IS a correlation :)
--- End quote ---
They use the words snow and storm synonymously.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---5) There is a moment that seems interesting to me.
Ennis: Is Alma here?
Monroe: Yeah, she's in the condiments aisle.
Ennis: The what?
Monroe: Ketchup.
Well, I think that condiments is pretty tricky word with lots of letters — "species" would sound and spell more easily. So when Monroe says "In the condiments aisle", is that right that Ennis didn't understand (or maybe had just misheard) this word and that is why he re-asks: The what?
You know, that could be a little detail for Ennis's portrait of a "roughneck" man.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think this exchange shows that Ennis is a roughneck, while Monroe is more cultured. There's also a sly play on words, since Ennis seems to jump to the conclusion that Monroe is talking about the "condoms" aisle. :P
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---6) Ennis: I'll be half the night. Bring home some ground steaks if you think of it.
Why would Alma think of ground steaks? May I translate it like "If you want to", or "I'll try to bring them"?
--- End quote ---
I think this is just something he tacks on at the end so his statement wouldn't sound so harsh. Also, refer to the meat/beans discussion above
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---7) Alma: Okay, we take one more bite, and then you're finished with dinner. There, that's a good bite. All right, you're excused. Please. Thank you.
To be excused means here "You may leave to whereever you want, finally, after finishing dinner, right? And the last three words (Please. Thank you), what do they mean? In russian dubbing it sounds like "Where's your "Thanks [for food]"?" I mean, saying Thanks to the person who cooked after having dinner is a sign of good manners, but Alma Jr, being a child, doesn't care of any manners :)
--- End quote ---
I agree with you on this translation.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---8) -- Oh, this cowboy with glasses, again =) Eight) Ennis: We might not get back tonight when we get to drinking and talking and all.
May I translate it like this: "We might not get back, 'cause we are going to drink and talk all the night"? Is that a correct sence?
--- End quote ---
There is something missing in your translation in that Ennis is being disingenuous. He's saying "drinkin' and talkin' and all" because he is already thinking about getting "into this again" with Jack (see next question)
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---9) There's some questions about their motel dialogue.
Jack: ...Swear to God, I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough. What about you?
Ennis: Me? Mmm. I don't know.
Jack: Old Brokeback got us good, don't it? What are we gonna do now?
Ennis: I doubt there's nothing we can do. So now I'm stuck with what I got here. Making a living is about all I got time for now.
So the first and the main question that makes me really anxious: how exactly do they regard (or what do they thing about) their relationship (connection)?
To get into THIS?? Well, I'l explain. It seems to me that they don't take it seriously, I mean, they think it is just something uncontrollable that happens sometimes. Maybe I don't need your explanations; this forum is quite big and maybe I just need to read some topics to understand. (P.S. I mean, there are some posts about it, but I couldn't read some of topics here with thousands of posts =) So it would be great if someone write the link to those posts.)
--- End quote ---
I'll have to research that and get back to you!
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---I red-lined it all the way. -- What exactly did he red-line, their meeting after four years, or them living together (being GOT into THIS)?
--- End quote ---
To "red-line" means to go so fast that the speedometer needle goes all the way to the end where there is a red line. On my dad's old Cadillac, that was at 140 miles per hour.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---Further question. Brokeback got us good -- It seems the best sence I could figure out, is: "We met each other on Brokeback and the time we spent was amazing. Without Brokeback, we would never met".
--- End quote ---
I think Jack was saying that the "spell" or enchantment of Brokeback had great power over them, so that the subsequent years paled by comparison.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---The third one. Making a living -- what exactly does that mean? I think Ennis talks about he works much and he needs earning money for his family, so he has extremely little time to spend with Jack.
--- End quote ---
Correct, and also Ennis was reiterating that he felt he needed to keep to the status quo and not do anything risky or out of the ordinary.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---And fourth. Ennis: The bottom line is, we're around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again...
And again, this thing?! Why does Ennis use word... "THING"? It sounds for me like his relations with Jack is something that he isn't happy about. Or, maybe, the something, that he wants so much but can't keep himself off of.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and (sigh) yes.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---Alma: Ennis. As far behind as we are on the bills, it makes me nervous not to take no precaution.
Ennis: If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone.
Alma: I'd have them, if you'd support them.
As far behind as we are on the bills -- What exactly does it mean? a) They just have a lot of bills that should be paid out; b) they just have a lot of bills (I mean, the fact they have got them is the mainest here); or c) there's no money to pay those bills out, no matter how much bills they got, they couldn't pay out any of them.
Those nuances are quite important for translating, 'cause I can't translate this part of the phrase (as far behind as we are) in word-to-word way.
--- End quote ---
It sounds to me like they have some past-due bills.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---The next one here: I'd have them, if you'd support them. I can fugure out two sences here, which make this scene quite different. First: Is Alma talking about that in fact she wants more children, but as Ennis doesn't earn much money, they just can't afford them? And second: Maybe those words are expressing their extremely quick decision to devorce? «-- I'd be happy to leave you alone -- Sure, I'll take our girls (Alma Jr. and Jenny) if you would pay monthly child support.» -- And then they turn themselves back to each other, that means they accept their decision and there's no way back?
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think Alma is complaining about the low-paying jobs that Ennis takes on ranches instead of working in town. We don't really know how much time passed in between the bedtime conversation and the divorce. It looked like Jenny was in maybe fourth or fifth grade, so several years could have passed
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---11) Alma: So, one night, I got your creel case open night before you went on one of your little trips.
Oh this verb again. Was it accidentally, that she had found his case opened, or she had opened it on purpose?
--- End quote ---
I would say she opened it herself but by using the word "got" she made it passive voice so it wouldn't sound so blatant.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---12) Ennis: That don't mean nothing, Alma.
"This is not what you're thinking about, Alma [you're wrong about it, you misunderstand it]" -- is that a good sence? I would really like to translate this phrase like that underlined part.
--- End quote ---
The underlined words come close but they don't include the implication of meaninglessness and that Alma's words and thoughts don't count for anything, which Ennis manages to convey.
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---13) Ennis: Well, you got a better idea?
Jack: I did, once.
Please, say, Jack means that he several times (not once) proposed to Ennis to live together, "ranch somewhere", move to Texas... right? If he talks about Mexico (We ought to go to Mexico -- That's the idea), it would just break my heart.
--- End quote ---
I agree with your translation. I think Jack is saying "I did, once (upon a time)"
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---14) You have no idea how bad it gets.
Would be this phrase: "You have no idea how bad I felt! [without you/or with other men, by the way?]" good equivalent to the original one? (Again! this verb "got" :-/)
--- End quote ---
Correct. Jack is saying "I'm not like you. I can't be content with no intimacy."
--- Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm ---15) Ennis: I was probably no fun anyways, was l?
Cassie: Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun.
This scene is quite confusing for me. "I was no fun" -- it means, that he's not as funny and happy as she was, so she doesn't [deserve -- dunno how to say] living with such depressed person, or something (That she's too young and he's old already)? And what does she mean by her answer? "Fun is NOT what girls do love; I fell in love with you because of some other reasons?" -- does she mean exactly that?
--- End quote ---
Yes, that's what she means. Maybe there are some people who "fall in love with fun" but they're not the kind of people you want to watch epic movies about!
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