Author Topic: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...  (Read 85410 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« on: April 05, 2006, 05:41:09 pm »
I've been thinking about Ennis and his buckets lately. The first time I noticed a bucket was on that fateful first night when Jack ordered him to stop hammering and get in the tent. Ever obedient, Ennis stumbled towards the tent, kicking over a bucket, or a pot, or whatever but it made a loud clanging sound like it was empty. Then I noticed several more encounters with buckets and I thought, what's with the buckets? Are they there for comic relief?

This is what I finally decided is the meaning of the buckets. First of all, the bucket that Ennis kicks over first is empty. The vessel of his life is about to be filled up. The next time we see him kicking, it's not a bucket, but a couple of bikers. No buckets around. But wait! He had just told the bikers to get control over their slopbucket mouths. Okay, so at this point there's a load of slop in the bucket that is Ennis' life. He has come down from the mountain, and he has no hopes of ever seeing Jack again and he's resigned himself to a life that is an endless road waiting to be slopped with asphalt (didn't see a bucket in that scene, but I'm sure there was one involved).

Cut to after the reunion. Jack and Ennis are separated again, and Ennis is hurting. He has an argument with Alma. Alma wants to go to work at the grocery store, the source of her sustenance and site of her future husband, and Ennis wants to keep her at home to serve dinner. She leaves and he follows but turns back and loudly, violently, kicks over a bucket of ashes. Now, Ennis' life is represented by a bucket of ashes. His passion for Alma is all burned out and his passion for Jack smolders inwardly (he wears a down vest that has a red lining).

The last time I saw the bucket, my heart sank. Jack and Ennis were camping beside a stream and for the last time Jack suggested that Ennis leave Riverton and come and live near him in Texas. Ennis responds angrily and while he is berating Jack, a bucket starts to float down the stream. Silently I cried out, Ennis, your life and all your chances for happiness are floating away! But Ennis just kept grousing about how Jack was a big thinker (dreamer). Jack F**king Twist.

So, that's my ode to the bucket, and if any of you have a BBM symbol that means a lot to you, I would love to hear about it.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 07:35:03 pm by Front-Ranger »
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Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2006, 05:49:18 pm »
Don't forget that, during the 'getting to know you on Brokeback' montage, Jack brings Ennis two overflowing buckets of water as Ennis, kneeling, wrestles with hard stones.

Imagery. Symbolism. Can't fight it no how!
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Offline fernly

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2006, 05:54:57 pm »
Oh, Frontie, you got my former English-lit-major heart all a flutterin with that one.  What, I thought, could you possibly tweak out of a bucket?  That was convincing, lovely, and moving. It's so horribly sad when that bucket floats downstream, and we hear Ennis say with anger what we first heard him say with love.
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Offline newyearsday

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2006, 06:04:29 pm »
Oh, Frontie, you got my former English-lit-major heart all a flutterin with that one.  What, I thought, could you possibly tweak out of a bucket?  That was convincing, lovely, and moving. It's so horribly sad when that bucket floats downstream, and we hear Ennis say with anger what we first heard him say with love.

Truer words were never spoken Fernly. It's so so sad that he is bitter with those three words.

I have always felt that the big blue pot floating away in the fast stream was symbolic of the quickly evaporating dreams for a home and hearth that Jack had for them (i.e. a large vessel for cooking nourishing food seems pretty symbolic for the emotional home Jack could offer Ennis (since vessels are symbolically associated with emotion and love from Tarot and other symbolic systems and Jack was represented by the blue of the pot/bucket). But Ennis let it drift away from him. Do others feel this is meant to be left in or was just a happy accident that no one noticed?

 I posted about it a long time ago on a thread on the big board about water. A very nice thread, I don't know if it's still there.

But I love the way you have strung it all together Lee!! It's awesome, and yes, the english class lover in me swoons to see such dots connected cinematically.

Thank you for providing my favorite thread of the day!

Jenny
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2006, 10:37:31 pm »
My pleasure. And thanks, jmm, for adding to the bucket brigade. That was a potent sign when Jack brought the buckets of water.
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Offline henrypie

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2006, 03:03:27 pm »
Another thanks for the bucket chat -- splendid observations.

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Offline isabelle

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2006, 05:24:48 pm »
Just when I thought I'd read just about everything imaginable about BBM, given the nr of hours I have drifted on IMDb and here...
Thanks, front-ranger, I really enjoyed your bucket observations!
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Offline David

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2006, 06:40:55 pm »
Good observations.    At least Ennis "kicking the bucket" wasn't the usual cliche of impending death.    That was done already by Jimmy Durante in its a Mad mad mad mad World.

Offline Lynne

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2006, 05:13:00 pm »
It never ceases to amaze me what new treats there are to discover each and every time I see this - what a nice analysis!  My bucket contribution is that there's an overturned bucket behind Ennis in the background during the 'rodeo cowboys are f*ups' scene when he's opening up and talking to Jack...It's conspicuous now that you've pointed it out to me!

Thank you,
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2006, 12:57:22 am »
How did I miss this bucket a fingerlickin goodness?  My little addition is that the water sloshes sloppily all over when Jack puts the buckets down.  Just what Ennis is afraid of - Jack not keepin all the joie de vivre contained around others.

Offline henrypie

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2006, 11:55:03 am »
When Jack sloshes the water, my first reaction is "oh no, wasting precious water!" and then I realize duh, they're right next to the source.  They can get more.  And that reminds me of "what are you talkin' about, there're a thousand of em" -- in response to Ennis's unwillingness to spare a single sheep.  Jack: extravagant, unafraid to give; Ennis: stingy, afraid.  You only reap what you sow, baby.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2006, 12:11:25 pm »
Your perceptive reply, henrypie, reminds me of how Willy Nelson put it, "He was always on the move, never reaped what he could sow." Poor Jack. Thank you.
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Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2006, 12:16:41 pm »
Off symbol if not altogether OT, but ties in:

Again, during the (by me much beloved) "getting to know you on Brokeback" montage, just before bountiful Jack strides up with his sloshing buckets, we see the boys "beavering away" (literally) at that tree--

'Patient Ennis' is dutifully sawing, and 'Impatient Jack' is wielding the axe...

But you already knew that, didn't you?

 :-\
John
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Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2006, 12:25:07 pm »
WOW! Great to see that there's still plenty to discuss, analyze and find out about BBM! Love your bucket-idea Front-Ranger!

Quote
And that reminds me of "what are you talkin' about, there're a thousand of em" -- in response to Ennis's unwillingness to spare a single sheep.  Jack: extravagant, unafraid to give; Ennis: stingy, afraid.  You only reap what you sow, baby.
So true! That's one reason why their story ended the way it did.

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Offline fernly

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2006, 12:42:41 pm »
(Tell you what, friends, I love this thread!  Is there a way to quote more than one post at a time?)

Do others feel this is meant to be left in or was just a happy accident that no one noticed?
The bucket takes off downstream when Ennis bumps it with the frying pan.  Its floating off and him chasing it aren't in the screenplay.  Whether it was initially an accident, or an idea that came up on set - assuming there was more than one take, what we see on screen looks deliberate to me. 
And, yes it's floating off, and yes Ennis is really angry (i.e. terrified of being outed in Riverton and taking that fear out on Jack), but at least he's still chasing the bucket, doesn't just sit there and watch it float away.
But it's a really little, and mostly empty bucket, isn't it, compared to the full ones Jack was bringing in the early scene?  Ennis here is chasing after a paltry symbol, when the real person has turned around and started walking away from him.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2006, 02:04:45 pm by fernly »
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2006, 01:06:13 pm »
I feel another subject starting to assert itself...this movie just eats at you, doesn't it. It won't let me alone, and I love it. What I am wondering about today is why we so often see Jack in a horizontal position, napping, looking over the sheep, playing his harmonica, etc. The scene that got me going on this subject was where he was opening a can of beans while Ennis was stripping (sigh). He IS pretty good with a can opener actually, but the reason why he messes up, IMHO, is because he is doing it in a supine position with the can balanced on his stomach! Now, the way Ennis would have done it was to put the can down on a hard surface and open it from there, applying leverage. That way, it's also easier to get the lid off without getting beans all over. But I digress. This laying down that Jack does, is it just an extension of his leaning behavior? Is it an expression of his...what? (Oops, just had an Ennis moment there). Help me understand this!
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Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2006, 01:51:54 pm »
And, after the first tent scene, just think about the fetching Madame Recamier pose he chooses to display himself (strategically located above the herd) after completing the laundry and chores back in camp....
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2006, 02:55:29 pm »
Maybe it's an expression of his comfort level.  He seems to be ok in his own body.  He's seems to be comfortable around Ennis and around the situation, which is the exact opposite of how Ennis feels.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2006, 03:05:02 pm »
Maybe you're right deedee. I did cringe when Jack was lounging (good expression John, "Madame Recamier" LOL) and nonchalantly flexing his booted feet when Ennis came up behind him with his gun (why did he have to have his gun with him at that point?  :'( ) but he sure seemed to be pretty carefree and comfortable, not like I would be!!

And John, your prose is awesome! Are you a writer perchance? I would like to appoint you co-author of this thread if you would care to accept the title. We could make beautiful words together  8)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2006, 05:23:12 pm »
Back to the original topic for just a sec while I express my appreciation and amazement: Woooooeeeee!!!! I skipped this thread for days, foolishly thinking there couldn't possibly be anything interesting to say about a bucket. Meanwhile, I assumed by now we had exhausted the search for every imaginable metaphor and symbol. I tip my cowboy hat to you, Front Ranger (and to you, jmm and others, for your insightful additions)!

We've said it a million times already, but it bears repeating here: Absolutely nothing in this movie is accidental! Resume the search (and we will ponder the question of horizontalness).

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2006, 05:43:10 pm »
Lee, you are WAY too kind, but thank you!

No writer, me--takes more that a pretty turn of phrase to be one, I'm thinking: gobs of discipline (like our friends Leslie and Jeff), for example, of which I have none. I'm behind at work and I've been a bit under the weather, so my attendance on the board lately has been spotty--but I'll happily be an (erratic) contributer to your brilliant thread, if I may--

I wouldn't have called Jack comfortable and carefree, lolling on that hillside, but brave. He wasn't going to wait for Ennis to return 'fer supper' to get the verdict, oh no--he finished the laundry, did his chores, then got on his horse and rode on over to get it over with, to force the issue.

It's one of those odd, perfect things about the contradictions and complementarities of the characters that make them, and the relationship, ring so true, so real: strong, silent Ennis is frightened, and flibberty-gibbet Jack is utterly fearless and brave.

I love watching them as they walk through town to have their first drink together--Jack is on a short leash, but he leads the way. Even after Jack has taken over the duties of tending the main camp, and Ennis has become the herder, it is still Jack in the lead and Ennis who follows up behind with the supplies when they move the flock.

Emotionally starved Ennis is used to privation, and will suffer silently and stoically; brave, resourceful, outgoing Jack will wither and die without Ennis.

 :(
John
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2006, 06:14:35 pm »
Why, thank you kindly ma'am or sir, latjoreme. So, I've expanded the subject to include horizontality, and I'm also going to add impatience...and behind them stretching endlessly away are all my other favorite supporting actors (I think of Jake as a lead not a support): the coat hangers, spoons, tire irons, washboards, shepherd's crooks, turkey basters, electric knives, cans of beans, fans, etc. etc.

Guess I'll have to keep looking for my McMurtry to play Ossana to. . .
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2006, 10:00:15 pm »
(Tell you what, friends, I love this thread!  Is there a way to quote more than one post at a time?)

Testing this out now...

Choose Quote to Reply with a single quote...then for inserting additional quotes, scroll down to the Topic Summary below where the edit box is and select the Insert Quote option for each additional quote you want to include.  Note that the quotes must be prefaced with the '[quote author = fernly....' and followed by the '[/quote]' so make sure your cursor is in positioned in the edit box where you want the next quote to go, or you'll be doing some cut and paste to get it right.

We've said it a million times already, but it bears repeating here: Absolutely nothing in this movie is accidental! Resume the search (and we will ponder the question of horizontalness).
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Front-Ranger

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The elusive and clipped wings
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2006, 03:24:09 pm »
Where are all the birds and eagles on Brokeback Mountain? I didn't catch a single glimpse of an eagle, although I heard one in the scene just before they move the camp. The cry of an eagle can be heard echoing thru a canyon. Some people have said that there's an eagle feather in Jack's hatband but I didn't see it. After the mountain scenes, there are a few birds in the rest of the movie: a crow or raven flies over a white pick-up truck as an ominous portent in the post-divorce scene; there is a neon eagle above the tavern door in front of which Ennis gets beaten up; and the most prominent scenes of the Thanksgiving turkeys. The only other creatures with wings referred to are angels, but they are also elusive. Ennis calls his daughters angels and wishes he had wings like them; and Lureen resembles an angel in her last scene with her talons, plumage-printed blouse, and fringed hairdo. In the story, Jack is described as a "ministering angel" when he is punched by Ennis and lies in the wild columbine (a flower that looks like and is named for doves) with "wings folded." In the soundtrack are two songs: Angel on Fire, in the Childress Fundraising Dance scene, and, of course, Wings. But in the movie, images of the saving grace of angels and the freedom of birds in flight are few and far between. The lack of a symbol is in itself a symbol.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 06:06:55 pm by Front-Ranger »
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2006, 03:19:24 pm »
I watched BBM again last night while my men were watching the hockey playoffs and found two more references to eagles/birds. In one of the very first scenes when Ennis is walking toward the trailer, there is a medium view with two stratus clouds in the sky (they look almost like jet trails) converging over the trailer. The cry of an eagle? bird? is heard in the background. The second reference is not in the film; it's in the book (probably unfilmable). After the reunion scene, at the motel, Ennis is lying "spread-eagled" in the bed. Hmmm, this reference brings me to another interesting juxtaposition of metaphors which I will elaborate upon in my next post. Hope The New Yorker doesn't slap this file with a "Block That Metaphor!" sign. Yea I do...
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Offline Flashframe777

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2006, 04:00:12 pm »
All this talk about water and buckets is making me thirsty.

Good insights.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 04:32:56 pm »
That's the way this movie is, Flash. The more you drink it in, the thirstier you are for more.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 05:46:54 pm »
Okay, I would like to finish my thought as I promised to in an earlier post. It seems fairly clear that Jack is associated with fish and birds, especially eagles, while Ennis is associated with four-legged animals such as horses and cattle. Keeping this in mind, it's interesting that Annie Proulx called upon the two characters to become like the avatars of their beloved during crucial actions in the story. For instance, in the first tent scene, Ennis "hauled Jack up on all fours." Later, after the tempestuous reunion, Ennis lay "spread-eagled" in the motel bed.  Although she didn't use the line, Love is a Force of Nature, Proulx found ways to weave the forces of nature, including animals, into the story to elevate it to the stature of an archtype or myth.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 05:57:56 pm »
More bird:

The screenplay says that what Jack's horse with the low startle point does is called "crow hopping."

Offline Brown Eyes

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Buckets AND Coffeepots
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 06:04:46 pm »
OK, I can only handle the bucket topic at the moment.  I'll have to come back to the horizontal vs. vertical situation later.

Thanks for the great topic Front-Ranger and the summary in the first post. It occurs to me that somewhere else someone noted that there are often not only buckets but coffeepots or pitchers (some vessel with a spout).   The idea was that Ennis was associated with coffeepots and Jack was associated with buckets (although I can think of lots of ways that could be reversed).   I guess, the idea was the Ennis is the vessel that pours while Jack receives.  These two symbols become really clear in the Flashback.

I *just* finished watching the movie and had buckets and coffeepots on my mind. So, here's a list of the buckets I remember. I'm repeating some things from the posts above (but I thought I'd be systematic).  I noted these things because the camera seems to linger on these props during these moments and/or the item is mentioned in dialogue.  I'm sure I'm missing some, but...

-Jack with the two full buckets of clear water that he sloshes next to Ennis building the campfire
-Ennis washing the coffeepot out in the stream when he looks up and gazes at Jack way up high on the mountain with the sheep
-When Jack comes in for supper one night and complains about how bad the pup tent smells, etc. he makes a big point of opening the coffeepot lid
 and looking inside and then he pours himself a drink
-the buckets during the "that's the most I spoke in a year" conversation.  The buckets are in the background and it seems that Jack may knock some over when he falls to the ground.
-Ennis kicks a bucket or pot (can't tell which) when he stumbles into the tent for the 1st tent scene
-when he opens the tent flap the morning after the 1st tent scene the clearest object that can be seen near the fire circle outside is a bucket.
-the "slop-bucket mouths" comment during the fireworks scene
-the bucket of ashes that Ennis kicks while the girls are on the swing set
-the bucket that Ennis has to chase downstream while he's washing dishes and has the argument with Jack about moving to Texas
-Ennis's comment that the most traveling he's done is "around a coffeepot looking for the handle"
***THEN- in the Flashback*** As the camera pans up from the fire towards Jack's face, it reveals a bucket and a coffeepot sitting neatly side by side.
-one final possible bucket (though it could be a stretch) is the large metal garbage can outside of Ennis's trailer at the end.

Yes, I think a lot can be made of these metaphors and the way the symbols change throughout the film.

 :D
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2006, 06:09:22 pm »
Thanks Amanda, for this list.  I'm about to go see the movie at the cheap movie theater, and look forward to noticing the bucket and coffeepot in the dozy embrace scene.

Clarissa

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2006, 07:33:53 pm »
Sharp eyes! I'm just going to have to watch the movie again tonight...!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2006, 10:01:03 pm »
Oh, oh, I have a few good updates for the list...

When Jack brings those first two full buckets of water and sloshes them next to Ennis building the fire circle... he puts those buckets directly behind the coffeepot.

Also, during Jack's Water Walking Jesus song, Ennis bangs on his coffeepot like a drum.


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Offline Meryl

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2006, 10:59:38 pm »
My favorite appearance of the coffeepot is when Ennis stretches out by the campfire after Jack gives him the blanket.  Note the position of the coffeepot in relation to Ennis's anatomy.  ;)
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2006, 09:26:44 am »
Watched BBM again last night, and it was great to see the pot and coffeepot together at the beginning of the flashback scene! Thanks so much atz for catching that!

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Offline cmr107

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Re: On buckets and horizontality (Jack's)
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2006, 05:27:01 pm »
Thanks Amanda, for this list.  I'm about to go see the movie at the cheap movie theater, and look forward to noticing the bucket and coffeepot in the dozy embrace scene.

Clarissa

Elle, when I first saw this I read it as "noticing the bucket and coffeepot in a dozy embrace" and it made me smile.

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Re: More on eagles and four-footed animals
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2006, 05:32:27 pm »
Hi, it's me again. Just a few more thoughts on the way that Jack is likened to a 4-footed animal and Ennis to an eagle in crucial scenes that I brought up in an earlier post. In the story, Ennis calls Jack "Little Darlin" which is an endearment reserved for his horses and daughters. On Ennis and Jack's first camping trip after they reunited, Jack asks Ennis how long their relationship would continue, and Ennis replies, "For as long as we can ride 'em. There ain't no reins on this one." The most remarkable reference to Jack as like a horse is during the flashback scene when Ennis comes upon Jack and says, "You're sleepin on your feet like a horse."

This is in addition to the reference I mentioned earlier where Ennis "hauled Jack up on all fours" in the first tent scene.

In a thread called "Coincidence or..." is a great discussion of the bluebirds which appear throughout the movie.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2006, 06:58:07 pm »
Thanks Amanda, for this list.  I'm about to go see the movie at the cheap movie theater, and look forward to noticing the bucket and coffeepot in the dozy embrace scene.

Clarissa

Elle, when I first saw this I read it as "noticing the bucket and coffeepot in a dozy embrace" and it made me smile.

Maybe one our resident artists could draw that for us.  It's cute.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ode to the bucket
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2006, 07:45:59 pm »
strong, silent Ennis is frightened, and flibberty-gibbet Jack is utterly fearless and brave.

I love this.  I haven't heard the term flibberty-gibbet for ages.   :laugh:  This also sounds like a pair of phrases just begging to become part of a poem... like a limerick or a nusery rhyme.

Anyway, what I'm really here to bring up is that darn eagle feather that Jack is supposed to wear in his hat (in the story).  He wears it at the very beginning and Proulx makes a big point of noting that he's still wearing it 20 years later.  I guess the eagle symbol can alternate back and forth between Jack and Ennis.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2006, 12:07:18 am »
My favorite appearance of the coffeepot is when Ennis stretches out by the campfire after Jack gives him the blanket.  Note the position of the coffeepot in relation to Ennis's anatomy.  ;)

That's a good one, certainly.  I thought Ang Lee showed a great deal of restraint in that the obvious 'phallic' symbols are few and subtle.  But it makes me smile to see it.   :)

-Lynne
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2006, 02:15:16 pm »
Hi Gang, I just remembered that my favorite shirt of Ennis's has feathers on it (I think).  It's the one he wears when he and Alma Jr. and Cassie go to the bar and he and Alma Jr. talk in the truck afterward.  He also wears it when he and Jack are snuggled asleep in the last, short tent scene, on their last night together.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 06:05:28 pm by Ellemeno »

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2006, 11:14:56 am »
Another reference: When Jack meets Alma, he is described as "trembling like a run-out horse."

I second the wish for a pot and a coffeepot in a dozy embrace over the campfire! Wouldn't that make a good graphic! I'm going antiquing this weekend looking for enamelware camping utensils, but I think I'll pass on the spoon that can be used as a tire iron.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2006, 05:29:24 pm »
I just noticed a new coffeepot and bucket detail.  In the scene by the river when Jack suggests that Ennis move to Texas... Ennis is washing both a coffeepot and a bucket.  This is right before the bucket floats down stream.

I know this is a slightly compulsive thing to notice.  But hey... I thought I might as well report it.
 ::)
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2006, 05:55:22 pm »
Thanks, you have an eagle eye,  :D atz (it's amanda, right?) I found the perfect coffeepot in an antiques store, but, alas, no lid, so I have to keep searching. Around the coffee pot looking for the handle...
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2006, 08:46:54 pm »
Heya Front-Ranger,
Yup, it's Amanda.   I thought it would be fun to bring an old thread up to the front page again anyway.

 :D
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2006, 10:13:27 pm »
Cool to have this thread resurrected b/c I was going to look for it later.  I have a random comment about the horizontal-Jake/vertical-Ennis which I noticed last night -

One conversation where this positioning is reversed is the 'sweet life' scene.  Initially, Jake is sitting, perhaps anxious about his proposal, or at least a man with something on his mind, while Ennis is reclining, looking as relaxed and as happy as we ever see him. 

Does anyone have any deeper insight into this?  I can't think of another scene where they're positioned in this way.

Thanks,
Lynne
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2006, 11:10:04 pm »
Hey Lynne,
That's a good point.  I've never really thought about that scene in terms of the horizontal/vertical question.  I guess the biggest and most obvious contrast to that is the day after the 1st tent scene on the mountain top when Jack lounges around on the grass waiting for Ennis to come and talk to him.  I can think of more cases where Jack is the horizontal one... the harmonica scene with the "tent don't look right" comment is another example.  I'm not sure what to make of it or why the position is reversed in the "prayer of thanks" scene.  Maybe it's just a representation of the ying and yang idea.  Like their hat colors.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2006, 12:29:59 am »
More on the horizontal/ vertical topic... Well, this is somewhat related.  During the Brokeback summer when they're moving camp (that transition sequence where there's a lot of score and images of herding sheep, riding horses, landscape, etc.) there's a great shot where Jack is shown on his horse in profile from quite a distance... He's positioned parallel to the screen and Ennis rides into the scene with the pack mules behind him.  He approaches Jack at what seems like almost a perfect right angle and as he gets closer that sense of a right angle becomes really pronounced. I guess all of this has to do with the yin and yang idea.  It certainly makes for some striking shots.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2006, 01:29:47 pm »
Interesting, I will have to look at that scene again soon. Thanks for pointing this out, Amanda!
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2006, 07:23:44 pm »
I've been thinking about Ennis and his buckets lately. The first time I noticed a bucket was on that fateful first night when Jack ordered him to stop hammering and get in the tent. Ever obedient, Ennis stumbled towards the tent, kicking over a bucket, or a pot, or whatever but it made a loud clanging sound like it was empty. Then I noticed several more encounters with buckets and I thought, what's with the buckets? Are they there for comic relief?

This is what I finally decided is the meaning of the buckets. First of all, the bucket that Ennis kicks over first is empty. The vessel of his life is about to be filled up. The next time we see him kicking, it's not a bucket, but a couple of bikers. No buckets around. But wait! He had just told the bikers to get control over their slopbucket mouths. Okay, so at this point there's a load of slop in the bucket that is Ennis' life. He has come down from the mountain, and he has no hopes of ever seeing Jack again and he's resigned himself to a life that is an endless road waiting to be slopped with asphalt (didn't see a bucket in that scene, but I'm sure there was one involved).

Cut to after the reunion. Jack and Ennis are separated again, and Ennis is hurting. He has an argument with Alma. Alma wants to go to work at the grocery store, the source of her sustenance and site of her future husband, and Ennis wants to keep her at home to serve dinner. She leaves and he follows but turns back and loudly, violently, kicks over a bucket of ashes. Now, Ennis' life is represented by a bucket of ashes. His passion for Alma is all burned out and his passion for Jack smolders inwardly (he wears a down vest that has a red lining).

The last time I saw the bucket, my heart sank. Jack and Ennis were camping beside a stream and for the last time Jack suggested that Ennis leave Riverton and come and live near him in Texas. Ennis responds angrily and while he is berating Jack, a bucket starts to float down the stream. Silently I cried out, Ennis, your life and all your chances for happiness are floating away! But Ennis just kept grousing about how Jack was a big thinker (dreamer). Jack F**king Twist.

So, that's my ode to the bucket, and if any of you have a BBM symbol that means a lot to you, I would love to hear about it.

I wonder if there's a different reading of the bucket floating down the river. If the water flow is their love as has been often suggested, there was a chance for Ennis, the bucket, to catch that flow and just ride the water to happiness, as Jack repeated offer. But he doesn't, he runs after the bucket and stops it, himself. There was a chance for happiness, if only he'd just let go of control. After all, his happy moments were when he was out of control, weren't they? Tents, reunion kiss, Jack?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 07:32:56 pm by starboardlight »
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2006, 10:26:08 pm »
I wonder if there's a different reading of the bucket floating down the river. If the water flow is their love as has been often suggested, there was a chance for Ennis, the bucket, to catch that flow and just ride the water to happiness, as Jack repeated offer. But he doesn't, he runs after the bucket and stops it, himself. There was a chance for happiness, if only he'd just let go of control. After all, his happy moments were when he was out of control, weren't they? Tents, reunion kiss, Jack?

Heya starboardlight... I really like this idea about Ennis being most happy when he's out of control.  It makes the line "there ain't no reigns on this one" seem even more interesting.


OK, so I have a bucket question.  We've noted the swing-set scene where Ennis kicks the bucket that seems to be filled with sand.  It's one of the only scenes I can think of where a bucket isn't either empty or filled with water.  Anyway... what is the significance of that scene in general.  It's positioned in a really important place in the film... right after the "prayer of thanks" camping trip.  Lee cuts from Jack caressing Ennis's face to this scene.  It's a pretty jarring and abrupt change.  Other than just showing the deteriorating nature of things in Alma and Ennis's relationship... what's the point?  Also, I wonder if Alma is already seeing Monroe at this point in the movie.  She's going to take an "extra" evening shift.  I wonder if this is a pretext to sneak off to see Monroe.  Or, at least it shows that Alma is already wanting to spend more and more time at the grocery store (and presumably around Monroe).
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2006, 10:49:52 pm »
I always thought the bucket looked like it was full of ashes. So I took that as a symbol of what Ennis & Alma's relationship is like, compared to the fresh water in Ennis & Jack's. Sand would work too, I guess. It's the first time we see Ennis back to his regular life post-reunion, and the ashes/sand symbolize how dull and bereft it feels compared to his fun with Jack.

I really doubt Alma was seeing Monroe before the divorce. To me, Monroe seems like a fallback, a substitute (what IS the right idiom to describe Monroe's role? Sloppy seconds?). As symbolized by the electric knife, which I always assumed is meant, in part, to suggest a vibrator (is it only me who thinks this? or does everybody else think it's so obvious it's hardly worth mentioning, or what?). Like that's what Monroe is to Alma -- something you turn to when your man isn't available.

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2006, 10:51:31 pm »
Also, I wonder if Alma is already seeing Monroe at this point in the movie.  She's going to take an "extra" evening shift.  I wonder if this is a pretext to sneak off to see Monroe. 

I suspected that, as well.

Though, Katherine, I've never thought of the electric knife as vibrator...  :laugh:
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2006, 10:56:13 pm »
That's so funny about the electric turkey carver!! It really epitomizes Monroe's role!! Great thinking, u 2!
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2006, 10:58:15 pm »
Though, Katherine, I've never thought of the electric knife as vibrator...  :laugh:

Whoops! First I theorize that Jack's postcard prompts Ennis to go off and do some wringing, now this! Maybe I should go over to the NC-17 thread.

 ::)

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2006, 11:07:39 pm »
Whoops! First I theorize that Jack's postcard prompts Ennis to go off and do some wringing, now this! Maybe I should go over to the NC-17 thread.

 ::)

LOL. :laugh:

Yup, that's definitely a new way to look at the carving knife.  Yikes though... that's quite a dangerous vibrator if you think about it! 
 :o ;)

ps. We're not allowed to bring the "wring/ wrang" discussion into this thread... we've all seen the craziness that can ensue when that topic comes up. LOL. ::) :-\
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2006, 11:09:21 pm »
Or stemming the rose either! Definitely a no-no!!
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2006, 11:13:39 pm »
Extremely dangerous vibrators, on the other hand...  :laugh: Katherine, I'm never going to see that scene the same way again.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2006, 12:07:35 pm »
As symbolized by the electric knife, which I always assumed is meant, in part, to suggest a vibrator (is it only me who thinks this? or does everybody else think it's so obvious it's hardly worth mentioning, or what?). Like that's what Monroe is to Alma -- something you turn to when your man isn't available.


that never even occurred to me. but it's a good one, katherine. just when I thought all ideas have been exhausted.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2006, 12:22:28 pm »
While Alma night not have been dating the owner of the Riverton grocery store (Bill in the AP story) before she decided to divorce Ennis, she saw him probably 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 +/- weeks a year for several years before the divorce.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 09:31:42 pm by christopher_SLAYERS »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2006, 12:34:35 pm »
Ooh, good call, Katherine.  I saw the electric knife only as a contrast to Jack's real one - showing him finally standing up to L.D. after he implies he isn't a man and seizing the knife from him to be the true "stud duck," then we segue to Monroe using an electric knife because he truly isn't a real man (as evidenced further, or proven, really by his inertia when Alma is screaming in the kitchen).  But you've taken it one step further and it follows perfectly - he is a replacement for the real man in her life, and nothing more.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2006, 11:42:28 pm »
I found one last mention of the coffeepot. At the end of the story, Ennis is working at the Coffeepot (must be a ranch) where he takes all the horseblankets into town to be washed (or warshed, nod to Terry) and goes across the street to buy a post card of Brokeback Mountain. It's coffeepot, sans bucket, now.  :'(
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2006, 01:16:06 am »
Oh wow!  Good catch!
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2006, 05:21:16 pm »
In the trailer "bookend" scenes, there is a trash can in the same place--just to the right of the entrance as you're facing the trailer. The one outside Ennis's trailer at the end is particularly beat up and dented  :-\.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2006, 11:04:14 pm »
Heya Bud,
Thanks for re-vitalizing this old thread too!

I have nothing constructive to add at the moment... other than this is my 800th post!  Yeehaw!
 8)
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2006, 10:35:15 am »
Thank U for celebrating yr 800th here, Amanda! A tip of the old coffeepot to U!
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Offline magicmountain

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2006, 06:35:04 am »
Have you noticed that in most scenes Jack is seated to the right of Ennis. Left brain, right brain?
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2006, 01:36:12 pm »
You're right about that, magic. Also, I notice that Jack is more often reclining or leaning forward, while Ennis is straight up and down. In the lake scene and the post-divorce scene Jack is on the right. Then in the reunion kiss, he starts out being on the right, but ends up on the left. Somehow, as hard as I try, I never can follow the choeography of that scene!!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2006, 08:07:13 pm »
Hi Lee,
Yeah, I think the topic of horizontal vs. vertical is probably very important and hasn't been hashed out thoroughly yet as far as I recall.  My feeling is that reversals and "choreography" when it comes to top/ botton and horizontal/ vertical in the love scenes and "tussles" are probably really important too.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2006, 08:16:53 pm »


So, the spirit of Ennis (prompted by Jack's complaining...) prompted me to "poach" this image from one of jpwagonneer1964's posts back on Open Forum.  I hope he doesn't mind.  It just seemed to scream to be included on this thread.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2006, 11:49:09 am »
Thanks, Amanda, so glad you heard the screaming!! And, thanks a lot, magic, now I lay awake at night cataloguing which scenes Jack was left and right in.  ::) (Peeling potatoes and clothes scene, reunion ending, doing laundry in stream...)
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2006, 10:57:28 pm »
Versatile scene...kissing Lureen goodbye scene...
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2006, 05:33:30 pm »
This is one of my favorite threads so I had to bump it. Ironically, photobucket is now blocked on my work computer, so I can't add or see any of the pix from there.  >:(
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2006, 11:27:07 pm »
OK.  I'm going to get serious here and try to start a list of important horizontal/ vertical moments.  Some of these are pretty clear and obvious... I'm sure there are a lot of subtle instances of these things too that we can hunt for. I take horizontal/ vertical to refer to both body positions and instances of below/ above (for instance the reunion scene where Ennis is above Jack on the balcony but their positions are equalized when they move to embrace...  Ennis must move down to have this happen... Jack runs towards Ennis but does not climb the stairs in order to hug Ennis).  I'll add to this as I notice different nuances.  I'd love to hear what people make of some of these choices in staging and "choreography."

Lee, if the task seems appealing to you, I nominate you to be our right/ left cataloger and point-person.


**Note, the reversals and changes in positions (and color, tone, etc.) in TS1 vs. TS2 have been well discussed so I will refrain from reiterating those intances in this list.



Ennis Horizontal and Jack Vertical:

-prayer of thanks camping trip- Ennis is lying down while Jack is sitting up and is elevated due to his position near the campfire.  Ennis sits up to tell the Earl
          story, but Jack still appears elevated in comparison.

-around the campfire directly before TS1-  Ennis remains lying down while Jack stands up and runs to grab the extra blanket.

-"that's the most I spoke in a year" conversation- Ennis stays reclined by the fire while Jack is peeing and when Jack jumps up to goof around and mimick
           being in a rodeo.


Jack Horizontal and Ennis Vertical:

-"Tent don't look right" scene- Jack is lying down while Ennis is upright and running around checking the tent.  This arrangement seems very calculated in the
             way the scene is filmmed.

-"You know I ain't queer" scene- Jack horizontal and Ennis vertical (positioned at right angle to one another at first).  Ennis then sits to be closer to Jack's
            position, but Jack remains in a more reclined position while Ennis is sitting up.

Ennis Below and Jack Above:

-the "maybe Texas" argument scene-  they begin at the same level, squatting by the stream.  But Jack stands up to leave Ennis squatting below him.  Ennis
            only stands up once Jack walks away.

-the hug at the end of the argument scene.  Ennis collapses to the ground while Jack remains more upright at first as he tries to support Ennis.  He
            eventually kneels down too.

-scene where Jack picks out the low-startle point horse and the horse-spinning scene both involve Ennis checking Jack out while Ennis is on the ground and
            Jack is elevated by sitting on the horse.

Jack Below and Ennis Above:

-scene where Ennis is washing out the coffee pot in the stream and looks up to see Jack high on the mountain with the sheep.

-reunion scene Jack is remains at ground level while Ennis begins at an elevated level on the balcony and comes down to embrace Jack.






« Last Edit: September 01, 2006, 11:20:39 pm by atz75 »
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2006, 02:11:35 pm »
THis is really interesting Amanda! I'm looking at the movie with different eyes after this! It's interesting to see the "dance" of the two characters in a kinetic way. Ang Lee talked about "blocking" out the scenes, and I think this is what he was talking about.

Quote
Lee, if the task seems appealing to you, I nominate you to be our right/ left cataloger and point-person.

Great! I will do this and use your post as a model. This is an intriguing project!!

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2006, 10:09:03 pm »
I am in heaven! This is more fun than should be legal! I have two laptops going, one with the movie, the other focused on this thread! And arrayed around the perimeter is an assemblage of dictionaries!! So, here is the left-right rundown:

First scene. J is stage right, E stage left
Aguirre's trailer: J stage right, E stage left
At the bar: same
Going up the mtn: One shot w/J stage right, Ennis stage left, most of the time Ennis is on the right
On the mtn: first scene with J stage left, E stage rt. J has a sheep on him, E is petting a blue heeler
Ennis looking up at Jack: back to J stage right, Ennis stage left
during this series of shots, the water is flowing right, and the sheep are flowing left.
In the bear shot, Ennis is initially traveling left, but then after encountering the bear, he goes right.
Where U been shot:  J stage right, Ennis stage left, then cross to Ennis stage rt, Jack left
Shooting the elk: Ennis stage rt, Jack left
Eating elk: back to Ennis on left
Commuting: Jack stage left
Wanna switch: Jack on left, then Ennis on left when he takes off to go up w/the sheep
Warsh scene: Begins with Ennis on left, then switches to Jack on left
Flickin the rodeo belt: Jack on left
Setting up the new camp: Jack on left, also in the Tent don't look right scene
Water-Walkin Jesus: Jack on right
Go up to the sheep now: Ennis on left
The morning after: Ennis on left, then Ennis travelling left
No business scene: Ennis left, Jack right
Hail scene: Jack left, Ennis right
Chilean scene: Ennis left, J rt then opposite
Harmonica: Ennis rt, J left, then cross
Camp teardown: Jack left, Ennis right
Tussle: ends with Jack stage right
Going down the mtn: Ennis, left

more soon



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2006, 10:56:17 pm »
Goodbye: Ennis stage left
Puking his guts out: Ennis right
Marriage scene: Ennis Left
toboggan: travelling from left to right
Bed scene: Ennis on left\
Lureen: entrance from stage left
Jack: on stage right, from barrel race scene
Peanut jumble: Ennis on left
Post card scene: Ennis enters left and exits left. He later looks left
Reunion scene: Jack left, Enis right
Jack on left. jack on right
Jack on left
Hotel Siesta: Jack on right
Jumping in the lake: Ennis on rt
Prayer: Ennis on left, crosses to rt
Young Ennis: on left
Get a tutor: Jack on right
Last scene w Alma & Ennis: Ennis scene left
Apres Divorce scene: jack scene right
Jack travels right...all the way to Mexico
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2006, 11:38:43 pm »
Jack travels right...all the way to Mexico

LOL.  I quite like how you phrased this observation.  I think that taking note of the directions in which trucks move is particularly important and was one of the first hints to me that directions and positioning in general are crucial to the movie.

All I can say is, WOW!   :o  Your list is so well-researched!  Clearly the right person was nominated for this job. ;)

Your list puts my beginning shot at a horizontal/ vertical list to shame.  I'll watch the movie again tomorrow and try to be more organized about a complete list... So stay tuned.  Its fascinating to see how carefully Jack is constructed as the "right" guy and Ennis is the "left" guy.  Clearly there are some reversals of this and some exceptions, but wow.  Making the systematic list really makes this jump out.  So, why do we think Lee did this?  Is there a metaphor in the words "right" and "left"... I sort of think there is.  Maybe something as silly and sort of sad as Jack= Mr. Right for Ennis.  And maybe that Ennis is the one left  behind/alone at the end.  I'm sure there are all sorts of interesting cultural connotations and traditions associated with right and left too.

The level of interesting detail that can be teased out of this movie never ceases to amaze me.

By the way... thanks goadra for the horizontal and vertical observations!

cheers!
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2006, 12:13:12 am »
Or maybe there's some cinematic rule we don't know about, like "the person on stage right tends to appear dominant" or something like that (making that one up). Like the concept of the Golden Mean, that states that the most visually pleasing position for an object, say in a painting, is roughly three-fifths of the way across a rectangle (Amanda, hope I didn't butcher that definition too much -- my art history class was a long time ago).

Anyway, looking at Lee's and Amanda's research, I certainly can think of ways these findings could be significant.

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2006, 07:53:48 am »
To finish this up,

In the after divorce scene, Ennis looks at a white truck that is traveling left, while a black crow above it travels right.
Twist Thanksgiving: Jack on left
Monroe Thanksgiving: Ennis on right, then on left during the confrontation
Black and Blue Eagle: Ennis on left, truck with man enters from right
Campground: Ennis on left
Meeting Cassie: Ennis on left
Meeting Randall: Jack on right, Randall on left
Last campground: Ennis on left
Water flows gently past the tent from left to right
Last confrontation begins with Ennis on right
Ennis pivots from left to right in the background (unique camera angle)
Ends with Ennis on left
Flashback: Ennis on right
Bus station: Ennis on left
Phone conversation with Lureen: Ennis on left
Jack's death: Jack enters from left
Visiting the Twists: Ennis enters from left, Mr. Twist is on the right
During this scene, Ennis is on the right when he's smiling, and on the left when he is upset by OMT
Closet scene: Ennis on left, shirts on right
Mrs. Twist is always on the left, except when she puts the shirts in a bag
Last scene: Alma Jr. on left



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2006, 08:08:49 am »
Hmmm, I just thought of something. Go look at Julie's husband's ring with the yin-yang symbol (thanks, Julie!)

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=4105.msg80680#msg80680

Yup, it has Ennis (light) on the left, with Jack (dark) on the right. At least, that's how I see it.



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2006, 08:35:16 pm »
Hey again,

Well, I haven't had time today to watch the movie... so my horizontal/ vertical list will continue to have to wait.  Yup, Lee I sort of wondered if the right/ left idea would link back up to yin and yang.  I think I've usually seen that symbol with black on the right as well.  Another meaning of left and right that's been on my mind has to do with traditional wedding ceremonies.  Isn't it conventional for the bride to be on the husband's left?  I don't know what if anything that would mean for Jack and Ennis... but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Katherine, Renaissance, classical and even Egyptian art have all sorts of "rules" about the aesthetics of proportion.  It's possible that Lee had some of those old traditions in mind.  The complexity of figuring all those rules out makes my head hurt.  I think there's a lot to be said for the simpler issue of symmetry vs. asymmetry in the movie (linking up to the bookend/ ink-blot structure).  Maybe all of this has to do with the balance that's struck when Ennis and Jack are together and the unhappiness the ensues when they're apart... leading to the permanent asymmetry after Jack's death.
 :-\
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2006, 12:10:34 pm »
Now I am going to repeat my earlier posts with all of the left Ennises and right Ennises together.

Ennis on left:
First scene. J is stage right, E stage left
Aguirre's trailer: J stage right, E stage left
At the bar: same
Going up the mtn: One shot w/J stage right, Ennis stage left
Ennis looking up at Jack: J stage right, Ennis stage left
during this series of shots, the water is flowing right, and the sheep are flowing left.
Bear shot, Ennis is initially traveling left, but then after encountering the bear, he goes right.
Where U been shot:  J stage right, Ennis stage left, then cross
Eating elk: Ennis on left
Wanna switch: Jack on left, then Ennis on left when he takes off to go up w/the sheep
Warsh scene: Begins with Ennis on left, then switches
Water-Walkin Jesus: Ennis on left
Go up to the sheep now (TS1): Ennis on left
The morning after: Ennis on left, then Ennis travelling left
No business scene: Ennis left, Jack right
TS2: Begins w/Ennis on left, switches to Ennis on rt, ends with Ennis on left
Chilean scene: Ennis left, J rt then opposite
Harmonica: Ennis rt, J left, then cross
Tussle: ends with Jack stage right
Going down the mtn: Ennis, left
Goodbye: Ennis stage left
Marriage scene: Ennis Left
toboggan: travelling from left to right
Bed scene: Ennis on left
Peanut jumble: Ennis on left
Post card scene: Ennis enters left and exits left. He later looks left
Reunion scene: Ennis on left only shortly in the middle
Hotel Siesta: Ennis on left
Prayer: Ennis on left
Young Ennis: on left
Last scene w Alma & Ennis: Ennis scene left
Apres Divorce scene: Ennis on left
Monroe Thanksgiving: Ennis on left during the confrontation
Black and Blue Eagle: Ennis on left
Campground: Ennis on left
Meeting Cassie: Ennis on left
Last campground: Ennis on left
Water flows gently past the tent from left to right
Last confrontation: Ennis pivots from left to right in the background (unique camera angle), ends with Ennis on left
Bus station: Ennis on left
Phone conversation with Lureen: Ennis on left
Visiting the Twists: Ennis enters from left, Mr. Twist is on the right
During this scene, Ennis is on the left when he is upset by OMT
Closet scene: Ennis on left, shirts on right






Ennis on right:
Going up the mtn: Most of the time Ennis is on the right
First scene on the mtn: J stage left, E stage rt. J has a sheep on him, E is petting a blue heeler
Where U been:  Ennis stage left, then cross to stage rt
Shooting the elk: Ennis stage rt, Jack left
Commuting: Jack stage left
Wanna switch: Jack on left at beginning of scene, then cross
Warsh scene: Nude Ennis on right
Flickin the rodeo belt: Jack on left
Setting up the new camp: Jack on left
Tent don't look right:  Jack on left
Hail scene: Jack left, Ennis right
Chilean scene: Ennis left, then opposite
Harmonica: Ennis rt, J left, then cross
Camp teardown: Jack left, Ennis right
Puking his guts out: Ennis right
Reunion scene: Begins and ends with Ennis right
Jumping in the lake: Ennis on rt
Last confrontation begins with Ennis on right
Flashback: Ennis on right
Visiting the Twists: Ennis is on the right when he's smiling
Last scene: Alma Jr. on left, Ennis on right


So, Ennis is on the left more often than on the right. His earlier scenes are all on the left, while the scenes with Jack somewhat alternate between left and right. In crucial scenes, he and Jack cross from left to right, and the last scene has him on the right.

I really should study the directions of the vehicles too...




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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2006, 11:09:11 pm »
I found another coffeepot scene (It helps to leave town and watch the movie in a hotel room--gives you a new perspective!). When Ennis is washing up in the middle of the stream, he is swabbing the coffeepot with a rag (warshrag!) and then looks up at Jack on the mountainside.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2006, 11:51:31 am »
Thanks to Katherine for moving this topic into the Open Forum--it was getting buried there over on CT. I have been reading a book about Chinese mythology recently and it discusses the concept of a tung, that is a ceremonial bucket or vessel that is meant to represent the world. Since the director, Ang Lee, is Chinese/Taiwanese, this is a concept worth considering.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2006, 10:36:26 pm »
Another reference to a bucket, buried in the story!

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=3166.msg111628#msg111628
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #86 on: November 10, 2006, 05:58:43 am »
Irrelevant: Juarez is a dead straight drop, 16 hiours, from Riverton.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #87 on: November 10, 2006, 02:13:22 pm »
A drop in the bucket, Julie??  :)

I was especially vigilant when the first post card came from Jack to the little apartment above the laundry. Lookin for a coffeepot somewhere in that scene. I didn't find one!! But there was a tea kettle in the background on top of the refrigerator, almost behind Ennis's head as he read the post card.
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2006, 07:24:39 pm »
Jack/Ennis, coffeepot/bucket:

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2006, 07:25:31 pm »
And another:



(They used a canvas bucket just to make sure we were awake)
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2006, 07:27:18 pm »
And one more:

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2006, 11:01:07 pm »
A great thread for the importance of seemingly insignificant details...

bump
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2006, 03:55:05 am »
A great thread for the importance of seemingly insignificant details...

I second this!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 05:53:28 am by Lynne »
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #93 on: January 20, 2007, 04:59:00 pm »
*bump*
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2007, 06:00:22 pm »
What a super great thread to bump for all of us new here.

Just one question.

I don't recall Jack in a t-shirt in the entire film.  Where did that picture come from?  I guess I have to watch again but I don't recall him ever being in just a t-shirt.



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2007, 06:13:57 pm »
What a super great thread to bump for all of us new here.

Just one question.

I don't recall Jack in a t-shirt in the entire film.  Where did that picture come from?  I guess I have to watch again but I don't recall him ever being in just a t-shirt.

I don't believe Jack was in a Tshirt in the movie - I believe these are production photos from the shoot, but I can't say where they're from actually.  Maybe Lee remembers?
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2007, 11:57:49 am »
I got these pics from LauraGigs so I'll follow up and ask her where they came from. But, isn't he sexy in a T-shirt? I'm so glad plain white T-shirts are back in vogue!
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2007, 12:06:27 pm »
I got these pics from LauraGigs so I'll follow up and ask her where they came from. But, isn't he sexy in a T-shirt? I'm so glad plain white T-shirts are back in vogue!


Yes, he certainly is sexy in the t-shirt  :o :o :o :D

Even though I generally go for Heath ::)




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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2007, 12:29:16 am »
What a super great thread to bump for all of us new here.

Just one question.

I don't recall Jack in a t-shirt in the entire film.  Where did that picture come from?  I guess I have to watch again but I don't recall him ever being in just a t-shirt.


I don't believe Jack was in a Tshirt in the movie - I believe these are production photos from the shoot, but I can't say where they're from actually.  Maybe Lee remembers?


Heya marlb42, Lynne and Lee...

I feel like these photos (whether they're production photos or anything else) are precisely what have caused the discontent over the newly released Collectors Edition DVD.  Photos like these and wierd alternative footage that has wound up in the trailer for BBM (of all places) make us all believe that we're missing something.  That there really is meaningful content or edited content that would be instructive or interesting to see for dedicated Brokies.  These photos are perfect examples because they advance the discussion of the coffee pot and bucket to greater depths.  Which, of course is very important!
 ::)

Well it is.  Really.
 :)

« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 12:32:30 am by atz75 »
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2007, 12:44:18 am »
Hi,

I truly agree  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I know that coffeepots and buckets are extremely important  :o :o ;D

And even though I am newer at all this than you I would absolutely  love to see the footage and the secrets that they are keeping.

I am sure they are doing that too ::) ::) ;D



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #100 on: May 12, 2007, 01:36:59 pm »
I'm bringing my bucket to the BBQ, and Ennis is bringing his coffeepot! They shall have a place of honor! Be sure to join us!!

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #101 on: May 12, 2007, 02:04:29 pm »
I'm bringing my bucket to the BBQ, and Ennis is bringing his coffeepot! They shall have a place of honor! Be sure to join us!!



Lee, are you bringing a canvas bucket or a bucket with ashes in it...  or both?
 ;D
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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #102 on: May 12, 2007, 04:38:18 pm »
Wish I could bring my bucket, but I can NOT this year!!

Anyone bringing a bucket to carry those cans of beans??

Hugs!!

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #103 on: May 17, 2007, 10:00:16 am »
Lee, are you bringing a canvas bucket or a bucket with ashes in it...  or both?
 ;D

Actually what I am bringing is what could be called a pot. A stockpot, actually.

Last nite at a BBQ planning meeting we were musing about how Ennis the camp tender is just finishing up cooking the eggs just as Jack rides into camp. Jack can dismount and chow down...Ennis probly kept track of Jack's progress down the mountain. Jack, on the other hand, had a different approach as camp tender. Ennis was shown with shirt off, half shaved already, while Jack was still cooking. And Jack was paring potatoes (for dinner?) and slipping them into a pot (yes a pot again) while Ennis was still performing his ablutions (warshing everything he could reach!) Hopefully those potatoes were for a future meal!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2007, 10:45:30 am »
Lucky you.

Lucky will be too the ones liking your meal!

Enjoy!

Hugs!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2007, 09:13:31 pm »

Heya,

I've just finished watching BBM tonight and am filled with observations tonight.

Remind me... is Jack the bucket or the coffeepot?  I think there are different ways to interpret which cowboy is which object.  Am I correct in thinking that Jack's more often seen as the bucket?

But, something I found very striking during this viewing is that when Jack and Ennis start arguing during the "maybe Texas" camping trip when Ennis is washing dishes in the stream... Ennis loses the bucket (specifically the bucket) which starts to float down stream.  It's the bucket that he's chasing after in the stream as that scene concludes.  It seems that this is very foreboding... and maybe an indication that things are slipping between Jack and Ennis... that Ennis's hold on Jack is becoming more tenuous or more problematic.  Maybe it's a warning to Ennis that he needs to watch out or work harder to hold on to Jack, etc.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2007, 09:36:41 pm »
But, something I found very striking during this viewing is that when Jack and Ennis start arguing during the "maybe Texas" camping trip when Ennis is washing dishes in the stream... Ennis loses the bucket (specifically the bucket) which starts to float down stream.  It's the bucket that he's chasing after in the stream as that scene concludes.  It seems that this is very foreboding... and maybe an indication that things are slipping between Jack and Ennis... that Ennis's hold on Jack is becoming more tenuous or more problematic.  Maybe it's a warning to Ennis that he needs to watch out or work harder to hold on to Jack, etc.

Hi Bud,

I usually think of Jack as the coffee pot and Ennis as the bucket, because Ennis is more often shown with some kind of bucket interaction. But maybe the relationship is more abstract than that.

Maybe instead of vessel=character, it's bucket=relationship, coffee pot=love, or something of that nature.

When Ennis is standing in the stream, watching Jack ride up the mountain, is he washing a coffee pot or a bucket? Either way, this action seems very significant.

When Ennis goes shivering into the tent, he knocks over a bucket, which falls clanging to the ground, as if some kind of relationship equilibrium is being upset.

The next morning, the coffee pot and bucket are side by side, as they are again in the dozy embrace, right? The two are together.

When Alma storms off to work, signaling trouble in their marriage, Ennis kicks over a bucket full of ashes, I gather representing the ashes of their marriage.

And, yes, when Ennis loses his grip on the bucket and lets it float downstream, I think it's about him losing his hold on the relationship.


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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2007, 10:06:09 pm »
Actually, you'll notice if you look carefully that everytime Jack appears on the mountain, there is some kind of bucket or pot near him. And Ennis seems to be more closely related to the coffeepot. But at certain crucial parts of the story/film, the symbols stand for the other person. Just the same as the animal symbols cross over. Altho Ennis's animal is definitely four-footed, at one point Jack is described as trembling "like a run-out horse." And tho Jack is definitely a winged animal such as the eagle whose feather he wears in his hatband, Ennis is described as lying "spread-eagled" on the bed. So it can be confusing, but also incredibly poignant that, as their stories become enmeshed, so do their symbolic references, and they entertwine like the acoustic and the slide guitars in the musical accompaniments.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #108 on: November 21, 2007, 07:46:40 pm »
Thanks Front-Ranger!

Wow, your points are surprising!!

Ennis is spread like an eagle, you say, and when was he??

Hugs!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2007, 08:04:45 pm »
Thanks Front-Ranger!

Wow, your points are surprising!!

Ennis is spread like an eagle, you say, and when was he??

Hugs!

Yup, Artiste, and he was half-tumescent too! hehe! That was when he and Jack reunited after four long years apart, in the story version, not the movie.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Artiste

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #110 on: November 22, 2007, 12:20:18 pm »
Thanks Front-Ranger!

You sau that he was: half-tumescent !

What is that? Please detail...

hugs!

And Happy Thanksgiving!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #111 on: November 22, 2007, 01:31:49 pm »
There are two meanings of tumescent that applied to Ennis at this time:

1. swelling; slightly tumid. 
2. exhibiting or affected with many ideas or emotions; teeming. 


Little Ennis was still half-swollen, big Ennis was teeming.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #112 on: November 27, 2007, 12:10:03 am »
Actually, you'll notice if you look carefully that everytime Jack appears on the mountain, there is some kind of bucket or pot near him. And Ennis seems to be more closely related to the coffeepot. But at certain crucial parts of the story/film, the symbols stand for the other person. Just the same as the animal symbols cross over. Altho Ennis's animal is definitely four-footed, at one point Jack is described as trembling "like a run-out horse." And tho Jack is definitely a winged animal such as the eagle whose feather he wears in his hatband, Ennis is described as lying "spread-eagled" on the bed. So it can be confusing, but also incredibly poignant that, as their stories become enmeshed, so do their symbolic references, and they entertwine like the acoustic and the slide guitars in the musical accompaniments.



Hey Lee!  These are great observations!  And, I very much agree about the birds/ feathers/ wind-instruments being associated with Jack.  That makes a lot of sense to me.  Also, I do agree that sometimes symbols gets mixed up or swapped around between the two characters.  The "spread-eagled" phrase is definitely an interesting detail to note from the story... maybe Ennis can be interpreted as being in this position as a direct result of being in Jack's presence.  I don't know... maybe it's a stretch... but it does seem to make some sense.
:)

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #113 on: February 19, 2008, 02:34:58 pm »
Bumping because buckets and coffeepots are once again hot topics!
8)

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #114 on: January 26, 2010, 07:02:37 pm »
People sometimes refer to their "bucket list" and there was a movie on the subject. I wonder how the expression came to be...
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #115 on: January 26, 2010, 07:56:55 pm »
Well, as you may know, a "bucket list" is your list of things to do before you kick the bucket. As for the latter phrase, here's Wikipedia:

Quote
Origin theories

A common theory is that the idiom comes from a method of suicide in the Middle Ages.[3] A noose is tied around the neck while standing on an overturned bucket. When the pail is kicked away, the victim is hanged.

Another theory relates to the alternate definition of a bucket as a beam or yoke that can be used to hang or carry things on.[1][4] The "bucket" may refer to the beam on which slaughtered pigs are suspended. The animals may struggle on the bucket, hence the expression.[1] The word "bucket" still can be used today to refer to such a beam in the Norfolk dialect.[5] It is thought that this definition came from the French word trébuchet or buque, meaning balance.[1][4] William Shakespeare used the word in this sense in his play Henry IV Part II where he says:[1]

    Swifter then he that gibbets on the Brewers Bucket.
    —William Shakespeare , Henry IV Part II

A third theory suggests that the origin of the phrase comes from the Catholic custom of holy-water buckets:[6]

    After death, when a body had been laid out ... and ... the holy-water bucket was brought from the church and put at the feet of the corpse. When friend came to pray... they would sprinkle the body with holy water ... it is easy to see how such a saying as "kicking the bucket " came about. Many other explanations of this saying have been given by persons who are unacquainted with Catholic custom
    —The Right Reverend Abbot Horne , Relics of Popery

A fourth suggests that the phrase comes from a children's game. The person who kicks the bucket loses the game.[7]


I'm not sure how they got from there to "bucket list." That may have originated with the movie.



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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #116 on: January 26, 2010, 10:02:31 pm »
That's interesting, Friend! Lately I've been reading a book named The Lore of the Bard by Arthur Rowan, which discusses the Celtic ideas of life, and it says that life includes three cauldrons. "The cauldron is a ubiquitous theme in Celtic myth" he writes. It is an "archtypical symbol of a container used for transformation." The three cauldrons are filled with lore,  craft, and passion.

The cauldron of passion encompasses joy and sorrow, and everything in between. This is what makes us human and makes life worth living. The cauldron of craft contains purpose and the application of skills. The Lore cauldron contains understanding and knowlege.

When people are born, their cauldron of passion is full, but the other two are empty. Over time, craft and lore are filled up, but the passion cauldron is emptied. The role of the Bard is to refill the passion cauldron and rebalance all of the cauldrons. This is done primarily through music.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2011, 05:47:32 pm »
I wasn't sure where to put this thought, in the Bucket thread or the Laundry Room thread, because it has to do with the power of liquidity. But I finally decided to put it here.

Michael Silverblatt, in his interview with Annie Proulx, talked about the differences between his reactions to the story and the movie, saying, "...there was kind of a movie-sadness sauce that somehow got ladled over the material, whereas the story is written in somewhat of the stoic way of these men." Because of her writing style his "emotions just leaked out through me unawares. It came as a real startlement to me." (I think his Ennis-like way of articulating this really must have endeared him to AP.)

Annie responded that she had hoped it would work this way so that "for the reader what's inside is necessary to complete the story and fill it out and put the meaning in it." Liquidity not only worked on the characters but also on the readers of the story.

Just a small note to commemorate the 14th anniversary of the publishing of this story that has changed so many lives.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2011, 10:04:30 am »
"Startlement", that's an interesting word.  I'll have to add that to "wonderment", learned years ago from a supervisor.  (e.g., "isn't that a wonderment? ! ")   :)

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #119 on: December 27, 2013, 03:28:19 pm »
I just now noticed another instance of the coffeepot occurring. It's when Ennis returns to his home after the long-awaited reunion with Jack and Alma says that he looks "all perky." No, wait, I think she says that at Thanksgiving. It's been too long since I've seen the movie!

Maybe instead of vessel=character, it's bucket=relationship, coffee pot=love, or something of that nature.

When Ennis is standing in the stream, watching Jack ride up the mountain, is he washing a coffee pot or a bucket? Either way, this action seems very significant.

When Ennis goes shivering into the tent, he knocks over a bucket, which falls clanging to the ground, as if some kind of relationship equilibrium is being upset.

The next morning, the coffee pot and bucket are side by side, as they are again in the dozy embrace, right? The two are together.

When Alma storms off to work, signaling trouble in their marriage, Ennis kicks over a bucket full of ashes, I gather representing the ashes of their marriage.

And, yes, when Ennis loses his grip on the bucket and lets it float downstream, I think it's about him losing his hold on the relationship.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Sason

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #120 on: December 27, 2013, 03:36:25 pm »
Yes, she makes the "all perky" remark in the kitchen after Tgiving, when she talks about the fishing line.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

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Re: On buckets, eagles, impatience, and...
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2015, 05:00:53 pm »
I'm reading Clarissa Pinkola Estes' book Women Who Run With the Wolves, and in the chapter about creativity, there is the story of Baba Yaga, a wise woman (hag) who flies through the air in a big pot with a spoon to steer it. Estes says that containment (as in the pot) is the solution to thwarted creativity. Jack and Ennis created their love together but when they spilled out into the world, after they came down off the mountain, it was dispersed and diluted.
"chewing gum and duct tape"