"I was supposed to control the weather"... Jack and the Wind

[starboardlight]

I am reading the 2003 screenplay and several concepts are introduced there that are either developed more fully in the final or dropped completely, and these tend to confirm that many of the allusions we've seen are true.

reading the characters with their elemental association is definitely not a stretch. Michelle Williams definitely talked about evoking the quality of water in her performance, when she did a Q&A at the Pacific Design Center in LA. It confirmed for me that Ennis, Jack, Alma and Lureen are Earth, Wind, Water and Fire respectively.

[serious crayons]

It confirmed for me that Ennis, Jack, Alma and Lureen are Earth, Wind, Water and Fire respectively.

Hunh? I always thought water was Ennis' and Jack's relationship. Or maybe that's bodies of water? Or outdoor water?

[starboardlight]

Hunh? I always thought water was Ennis' and Jack's relationship. Or maybe that's bodies of water? Or outdoor water?

there's the characters taking on the quality of the elements, and there the elements themselves.

We always see Alma around water of some form. She doing laundry, washing dishes at the sink, steam shooting through laundry vent as she angrily storms out from apartment in "no body's eating, unless you're serving it" scene, the snow outside as she confronts Ennis with the sink running. Michelle Williams explained how water has this strength to hold up ten thousand ton metal ships and yet is so formless that it collapse through your fingers. I definitely see that tension in her reaction to the reunion kiss. She's holding up a huge weight, yet she's about to collapse into a puddle on the floor.

So Alma character is describe as being water like. That doesn't mean that Water necessarily represents Alma. Does that make sense? Perhaps the distinction is in civilization water vs. outdoor water? I'm not sure. The visual of water movement clearly correspond with the dynamic in Ennis' and Jack's relationship. Yet, at the same time, Alma's story arc also flow like water. She tends toward path of least resistance, eventually settling for a comfortable if passionless life with Monroe.

[serious crayons]

OK, thanks Nipith, I think I get it. And actually I myself have also thought this:

Perhaps the distinction is in civilization water vs. outdoor water?

I've noticed Alma is often associated with indoor water, while Jack, or Jack and Ennis, are always around outdoor water. The distinction is particularly apparent in the two shirt-washing scenes.

[wolf]

Sometimes I wonder if they actually have been here. I know they're busy, but if it were me I'd have a hard time resisting a peek or two.

far be it from me to claim any sort of real knowledge about this  , but it's worth noting that key players in phenomenons like BBM, the sort that give birth to gargantuan cyber worlds, almost ALWAYS watch and listen.  many, and those you're referring to are no exception, participate.  'they' have very good cloaking devices  .

w

[nakymaton]

Mulling over the discussion so far in this thread...... I love the insights here!

It struck me that there might be some sort of "air and wind" connection and difference inherent in the Jack/Lureen relationship. Jack is connected with wind, and Lureen...... well, the very first time we meet her, as she's being introduced in the barrel racing competition, the speaker says: Look at her fly! He could logically have continued: "...... like the wind!" and it would have made perfect sense. That's certainly what he's implying.

The reason for Lureen's developing hairstyles has been discussed a lot, I know. Maybe this is *way* too far-fetched, even symbolically, but nevertheless: As her hair gets more elaborate and "starched" in every scene it looks more and more like a strictly indoor "do" - something that requires her to keep herself away from wind and open air and the elements in order to preserve the facade. It's as if she's communicating a hurt "right back at ya" that way: "If the wind doesn't want anything to do with me, well - I don't need or want the wind in any case! So there!"

Also, fire needs air to keep burning. Take away the air... and the fire goes out.

Sometimes I feel really sorry for Lureen. She was smart, she was aggressive... and she went for the wrong guy.

[Brown Eyes]

reading the characters with their elemental association is definitely not a stretch. Michelle Williams definitely talked about evoking the quality of water in her performance, when she did a Q&A at the Pacific Design Center in LA. It confirmed for me that Ennis, Jack, Alma and Lureen are Earth, Wind, Water and Fire respectively.

Heya,
I'm happy to see this thread come back to life!   I agree starboardlight. I feel quite comfortable discussing the nature symbols at length simply due to the movie's tag line too.  "Love is a force of nature."  I feel like that sentence must be an important key to certain aspects of the film if the writers chose to highlight it so prominently.

The water discussion is making me think about what Jake says in one of the bonus feature interviews... Jake said that Lee told him that Jack and Lureen go together "like milk and water."  Jake goes on to make a joke about this as being awfully vague... but again here we have Lee explicitly using metaphors like this in his direction.

And, back to the wind topic and laundry... A moment in the sequences leading up to the reunion really struck me as interesting.  When Ennis pulls into his drive way and gets out of his truck to head up to the apartment (right before Alma tells him that he got a postcard from someone named Jack) the vent from the laundromat kicks on audibly and visibly.  The hot steam from the vent blows the hot steam out towards the truck and Ennis as a whirling sound starts up.  Very excellent.  Then, when Ennis is actually in the kitchen to receive that first postcard there's another vent prominently visible over the stove (it doesn't seem to be moving or doing anything visible/audible as far as I can tell).  I think all fans and vents in the film tend to be interesting visual stand-ins for the wind idea. 

ps. wolf, that was a very intriguing post!

[wolf]

lovin' this Jack The Wind thread  .

if wind isn't the ultimate 'merchandise' I don't know what is!

atz, just wanted to issue a heads up to the effect you might be surprised who you're 'talking' to  .

w

[Mikaela]

Sometimes I feel really sorry for Lureen. She was smart, she was aggressive... and she went for the wrong guy.

I do feel sorry for Lureen. I really like her a lot, except her mothering skills. I even think it's debatable whether she went for the wrong guy. (And not just because I'd totally have gone for him too!  ) My opinion is that she truly loves Jack, and that's what keeps her in the marriage to the end. And given that premise, we're back to discussing whether it's "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all". Does that apply when the love is one-sided? Lureen might never have loved anyone else, and if so..... arguably, and sadly, she went for the right guy. Though it makes me depressed even to write that.

I've noticed Alma is often associated with indoor water, while Jack, or Jack and Ennis, are always around outdoor water. The distinction is particularly apparent in the two shirt-washing scenes.

Perhaps the distinction can also serve to explain the difference in their state of (un)dress in those scenes? Not that I *mind* Jack doing outdoors activities in the nude - very far from it    - but that just doesn't make sense to me. The symbolical sense is tenuous - the realistic, practical sense escapes me, I'm embarrassed to admit. I can see how the FNIT might have soiled certain pieces of clothing, but why not put on the clean set and wash the dirty ones? Or....doesn't he have an extra pair of trousers? How did he manage to make the clothes dry till he went up to Ennis later in the day - the weather wasn't especally warm. And so forth.

[Mikaela]

Last time I saw the movie on the big screen, it seemed to me that Jack had the car window open, rolled all the way down when he's driving north to the post-divorce scene. Hence the clear view out the window; - he does at any rate have that window all the way down as his car comes into view at Ennis's place. Then, as he drives back, it seems he's rolled the window up - that would be a realistic sort of reason for the blurry view and the "seen through tears" visual impact.

But it's hard to tell for sure - especially with the way he supports his elbow against (or on) the window sill in both scenes.

Anyway, the use of open window/closed window in those scenes would fit perfectly and poignantly  with the wind symbolism that has been discussed in this thread and also with the later scene where Ennis opens jack's window to let the air in.