Hi Dagi and Gary,
I see what you both are saying. I really do. And I also try to take into account what circumstances might have made people the way they are. I don't think those can be ignored. I realize that someone who had a terrible childhood is likely to have a harder time becoming a good and productive adult than someone whose childhood was happy. In addressing crime, for example, I think one of the most important things we can do is help people have better childhoods -- kinder, less poor, more enriching, happier.
I also absolutely agree that we should try to understand what makes people do bad things. Of course! Is it genetic? Environmental? Is it preventable? And no, I'm not saying those people are inherently more evil than others. I don't really believe in "evil" in that sense. I'm not saying they're a different species or anything. We're all shaped by a combination of our genes and our environments.
But. On the other hand, I also believe people ultimately have to be held responsible for their actions. If they're not, then what do actions even mean?
I'm not saying I "hate" Jeffrey Dahmer. Hate is a stronger word than what I feel toward Jeffrey Dahmer. I don't want to kill him or even necessarily see him suffer. But I don't love him. I love my children and my relatives and close friends. How could I put Jeffrey Dahmer in that same group?
Or maybe we're talking about something other than love. Maybe "respect as a human being" or something like that. But even then, how can I respect Nelson Mandella and Jeffrey Dahmer equally? If I did, doesn't that give Nelson Mandella's achievements kind of short shrift?
Circumstances do, indeed, shape people. But I also think humans have some degree of free will. I've known people who grew up in terrible circumstances and turned out fine. If they hadn't turned out fine, it would be understandable -- even predictable. But they did turn out fine, and they should get credit for it. People should be lauded for doing good. The flip side is that they should be held accountable for doing bad.
P.S. Gary -- that was some really good advice from that author! I don't know about love, but I do think that an author has to empathize with his/her characters, that is to understand what makes them act the way they do.
P.S.S. I'm taking a big test next week. There's one section in which you have to critique an argument that's provided. I'm really hoping the argument involves 1) the death penalty 2) abortion or 3) circumcision or maybe 4) whether all straight people are homophobic. What better practice is there than these threads?
Well whadda ya know. I agree with
crayon's last few posts
I don't "hate" those who commit heinous crimes. They shouldn't flatter themselves, I've never hated anyone. As
Gary says, hating leads to the Darkside, but just because I don't hate them doesn't mean I must
love them or whatever.
As
crayon says, understanding where someone comes from is fine and dandy. But at some point people stop being victims of their bad childhood and start making their own decisions and most of these perps
know their actions are wrong because they inevitably try to hide evidence of their crimes. You don't stop learning or growing just because you've left childhood. Being poor and dispossessed and thus prone to crime I don't agree with. They are all mutually exclusive. Somewhere along the way, people make wrong decisions. There are plenty of good role models around, and the fact that these heinous killers don't seek help, don't try to emulate good people when they know the consequences is just a sign of the fact that they're incorrigible or something is literally wrong in their heads and is never going to be fixed.
Thanks for the link
crayons, I'll check it out. I'm anxious to talk to my friend the debate coach to find out what she and her team finally used for a defense, but I only see her when they don't have a tournament which is like once every few months. Probably Thanksgiving break will be the next time I see her. Speaking of - she came from an abusive background and turned out just peachy - as far as society in general is concerned anyway.
As a quick aside to
Gary -
humans aren't prone to war, it's
men who are prone to violence and war.
As for
Mikaela and
More's posts about executing children or people who committed crimes while they were children and retarded folk, I haven't yet made up my mind.
On the one hand, the latest research indicates that young people under a certain age,
literally have brains that have not yet finished developing and their thinking does not go very far past action/consequence. They cannot think far enough ahead of any action they take as to what might be the consequences. That's why you see kids doing absolutely stupid things when you think they should know better. On the other hand, kids develop consciences very young, so if they don't have it by the time they're a teen, they're not likely to get one. And also, not all kids are like that. I acted very much my age when I was a teen, but having grown up where I did, I also knew very well what the consequences of my actions would be in regards to boys and commiting crimes.
As for the mentally-challenged folk. Again, my jury is still out. On the one hand, they don't really know what they're doing - but unlike kids - they will
never know what they're doing, so that will make them dangerous the rest of their lives.
Dunno.