Modesty/ Changes in TS2 - screenplay vs. film

[Brown Eyes]

Heya,

I don't even know if this rises to the level of a great topic for conversation (and I'm sure this is something that must have been considered before somewhere as well).  But, anyway... here goes..

Recently I've found myself reading the Story to Screenplay book more carefully than I have in the past and I'm particularly interested in the directions that are indicated in the screenplay as opposed to focusing on the dialogue.  There really is a lot there in terms of information and clues for interpretation.  Some of these directions are interesting because they were not followed in the finished film... and of course I think we all know that there are often quite significant differences between the film and screenplay (not to mention various manifestations that the screenplay itself probably went through).  I'm certainly not an expert on the technicalities involved in this, published STS screenplay... I'd be interested in hearing more about what this particular screenplay actually is.

Anyway, one (perhaps sort of fun) difference I noticed recently has to do with the description of TS2.  I was surprised to read in the screenplay that Jack is supposed to be entirely naked in this scene.  Whereas in the film he has his jeans on.  I'd be curious to hear what folks think about this change.  Is this change a reflection of modesty issues for Jake?  Did the filmmakers decide that having Jack be fully nude here would be too much for the audience (for one reason or another)?  Otherwise the motions indicated for Jack here seem quite reminiscent and descriptive of many of the motions that Jake actually performs.

Two other things also seem interesting to note.  The directions suggest that TS2 should happen at sunset (with a colorful sky), whereas clearly in the film it's fully dark.  And, there's no mention of the controversial "I'm sorry" here.



Here's how TS2 is written in STS:

EXT: BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, WYOMING: CAMP: TENT: NIGHT: 1963

The setting sun leaves the sky ablaze in orange and purple.

ENNIS sits by the fire alone.  Hears coyote in the distance.

JACK is inside the tent.

ENNIS, pensive, glances over towards the tent.  Decides.

Gets up.

Goes to the tent.

INT. BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, WYOMING: TENT: NIGHT: CONTINUED

JACK sits atop the bedroll, naked, his shirt draped over his lap.  He looks up as Ennis enters.

ENNIS cautiously steps in.  JACK raises his hand to him. 

ENNIS takes it.  JACK pulls him in.

JACK, gentle, reassuring, takes ENNIS'S face in his hands.

                             JACK
                         It's all right... It's all right.

JACK kisses him.

They lie back.  Embrace.  Kiss.

[louisev]

I remember very vaguely somewhere a long time ago reading that they did a number of takes of that scene with Jake fully naked, and it wasn't working, so they shot it with him wearing jeans.  But I am not sure I could find the reference for that.

[forsythia12]

well, i'm not sure the reason for the change would be.  jeans or no jeans, i just like the direction he's goin'!"  lol
the scene is hot no matter what.  they could be wearing parkas for all i care!  but back to your question, maybe it's just something with the acting, or maybe they felt like they could get closer to eachother with pants on.  not that i think it was a problem for them, but just an idea.  maybe they, or one of them, felt less inhibitted in that position if they were dressed a little more than planned.  who knows.
as far as the sunset?  i liked the fact it was dark. 
but, i've seen the movie so many times, it's hard to imagine anything but the way it was played out.
hugs.

[Brown Eyes]

I remember very vaguely somewhere a long time ago reading that they did a number of takes of that scene with Jake fully naked, and it wasn't working, so they shot it with him wearing jeans.  But I am not sure I could find the reference for that.

Hunh!  Thanks Louise, I hadn't heard that, but I can believe it. 

When we see glimpses of Jack in the tent through the flap as Ennis is still sitting by the fire... I do feel like Jack is fiddling with his shirt and seems to be laying it out or perhaps across his lap as described here.  He always seems so non-specifically "busy" in that tent as Ennis sits outside.  It comes across as possibly a sign of nervous energy or something from Jack.  The calm he exhibits once Ennis does enter the tent is pretty impressive.  I think his calm and confidence here are essential for Ennis here.  So, it seems that any nervousness Jack himself might be experiencing happens more in private for him or away from Ennis's gaze. (Maybe I'm making too much of this though).

I actually don't recall rumors or speculations about how many takes TS2 might have had... I've always heard 13 (or something like that) for TS1. 

My immediate wonder is whether Jake had any kind of no-nudity clause in his contract, but that can't be the case given the naked laundry scene.

well, i'm not sure the reason for the change would be.  jeans or no jeans, i just like the direction he's goin'!"  lol
the scene is hot no matter what.  they could be wearing parkas for all i care!  but back to your question, maybe it's just something with the acting, or maybe they felt like they could get closer to eachother with pants on.  not that i think it was a problem for them, but just an idea.  maybe they, or one of them, felt less inhibitted in that position if they were dressed a little more than planned.  who knows.
as far as the sunset?  i liked the fact it was dark. 

I like the fact that it was dark better too.  It somehow makes it seem more intimate and closed-in.

When reading this rather spare description for TS2 in the screenplay, it's interesting how many of the gestures are either improvised in that scene between Jake and Heath or how many of them were invented by Ang Lee independently of the screenplay.  I mean, particularly the last two lines:

JACK kisses him.

They lie back.  Embrace.  Kiss.


seem way to cursory to describe what actually happens following the "It's all right."


I love the one-word "sentence" describing Ennis as he leave the campfire: Decides.

That's pretty powerful.

[forsythia12]

[
I love the one-word "sentence" describing Ennis as he leave the campfire: Decides.

That's pretty powerful.



[/quote]


i liked that line too!  you can see him 'decide' in the movie

[injest]

well, i'm not sure the reason for the change would be.  jeans or no jeans, i just like the direction he's goin'!"  lol
the scene is hot no matter what.  they could be wearing parkas for all i care!  but back to your question, maybe it's just something with the acting, or maybe they felt like they could get closer to eachother with pants on.  not that i think it was a problem for them, but just an idea.  maybe they, or one of them, felt less inhibitted in that position if they were dressed a little more than planned.  who knows.
as far as the sunset?  i liked the fact it was dark. 
but, i've seen the movie so many times, it's hard to imagine anything but the way it was played out.
hugs.

I think that by staging the TS2 at night, it showed that they thought about it more..that they had spent the entire evening sitting and eating and not talking (or did they?? we don't know but I would like to)

if it had taken place earlier it would have felt more 'casual' ..like they had already decided to keep this relationship going...

[Penthesilea]

I think that by staging the TS2 at night, it showed that they thought about it more..that they had spent the entire evening sitting and eating and not talking (or did they?? we don't know but I would like to)

if it had taken place earlier it would have felt more 'casual' ..like they had already decided to keep this relationship going...

Yep, that's what I thought too, about the scene taking place in the dark.
My guess is also that they had a pretty quiet evening, no (or not much) joking around, no stories told, no carefree banter, talking only little. I picture thoughtful silence (mostly), and also a sense of unspoken, mutual understanding. Not understanding of what their relationship is about to become, but understanding of - looking for the right word here - being connected.

[Penthesilea]

Anyway, one (perhaps sort of fun) difference I noticed recently has to do with the description of TS2.  I was surprised to read in the screenplay that Jack is supposed to be entirely naked in this scene.  Whereas in the film he has his jeans on.  I'd be curious to hear what folks think about this change.  Is this change a reflection of modesty issues for Jake?  Did the filmmakers decide that having Jack be fully nude here would be too much for the audience (for one reason or another)? 

What comes to my mind is what Ang Lee said in interviews, that he didn't want to 'exploit' the actors (I put it in ' because I think it's simply their job; not getting exploited, but being naked when the scene demands it, but that's another topic). He said they were giving so much, he didn't want to ask more from them than what was really needed.

This comment is in agreement with Lee's well-known restraint in general as well as with his modest demeanor in interviews and the way everybody spoke of him. So maybe this is just a typical Ang Lee -thingie.

Maybe it was much simpler than that. Maybe they did takes with and without Jeans (like Louise said) and for whatever reason one of the takes with Jeans turned out to be the best. May just likely have been something as mundane as the lighting was perfect, no flies buzzed through the picture or whatever.

[injest]

What comes to my mind is what Ang Lee said in interviews, that he didn't want to 'exploit' the actors (I put it in ' because I think it's simply their job; not getting exploited, but being naked when the scene demands it, but that's another topic). He said they were giving so much, he didn't want to ask more from them than what was really needed.

This comment is in agreement with Lee's well-known restraint in general as well as with his modest demeanor in interviews and the way everybody spoke of him. So maybe this is just a typical Ang Lee -thingie.

Maybe it was much simpler than that. Maybe they did takes with and without Jeans (like Louise said) and for whatever reason one of the takes with Jeans turned out to be the best. May just likely have been something as mundane as the lighting was perfect, no flies buzzed through the picture or whatever.

or maybe that particular take had that indefinable quality that has made it so talked about and loved? The naturalness, the honesty? There was such magic in that scene....I can't imagine that they were able to reach that level every time.

[Brown Eyes]

or maybe that particular take had that indefinable quality that has made it so talked about and loved? The naturalness, the honesty? There was such magic in that scene....I can't imagine that they were able to reach that level every time.

Yes, I agree that this scene is pretty much perfection and I'm sure the final cut here in the film has a lot to do with a kind of indescribable chemistry and mood in one particular instance of this scene that probably couldn't happen in every single take.