Double meanings: Lines that can be taken more than one way

[Brown Eyes]

I just posted this in the new thread about Ennis's reaction to Jack's death... but I thought I'd post it here too.

It occurs to me that during the phone call with Ennis, Lureen's statement that she thought Brokeback Mountain was "some pretend place"  is very poignant because in actuality it's true.  In the real world Brokeback Mountain is a fictional place.  To me, this just adds to the sense that Brokeback was an ideal paradise that truly can't be accessed again.
 

 
About the sorority conversation...  I don't know enough about the politics of sororities to know much about the context of their conversation.  But, the tone of voice is enough to imply that there's a bit of competitiveness.  I certainly wouldn't call it a "catfight."  I think they're just trying to figure one another out.  I would think that the person who'd feel the most threatened by this conversation would be Jack.  Clearly, the women and Randall are all college educated, so I'd think Jack would feel like the "black sheep" here once again.  I actually think LaShawn is trying to reach out to Lureen a little bit by saying "we ain't quite sorority sisters...", implying that they are close to being so.  I think primarily LaShawn is trying to be friendly and social.  One of my favorite "double" meanings in LaShawn's conversation is when she says "we may just have to dance with ourselves..."  It's one of the only allusions to something even vaguely lesbian in the movie.  In the bar when Jack first meets Lureen there's a pair of women who seem to be walking around together and I've always wondered if we're meant to see them as a possible couple too.  I think so much of this movie is about questioning typical and conventional interpretations of people and comments.

[coffeecat33]

Wow! I just read this thread and my head is buzzing! My words are tripping over themselves. I LOVE to analyze things and I'm so happy that I found Bettermost and to know there are "people like me out there." (Is that a pun??) Anyway... referring back to earlier posts. It's funny but today for the first time (before I read this forum) I thought, Mar means water but also damage. Then I read it here, too.

About some Double Meanings:
The over-obvious loquacious plumber butt shoveling asphalt w/Ennis: “…I’m getting’ too old to be breakin’ my back shoveling asphalt.”

The scene of Alma discovering yet another postcard “Fish should be jumpin” – Jack  (one of Annie Proulx' books is Postcards isn't it?) which she puts out of sight in the newspaper featuring a special on honey to Jack saying to Lurene, "Honey have you seen my blue parka?" And Lureen answers "The last time I seen it you was in it...that day we had that big ice storm." Of course the movie, "Ice Storm" was directed by Ang Lee. (And for those who haven't seen it, ice coats and freezes everything. A tragic movie where everyone is alienated and in isolation - kinda like Ennis in the snow.)

The scene at the dance with Jack, Lureen, Lashawn and Randall there is much rancor going on beneath the surface (or under the sheet of ice).  Lureen would have always been the biggest, prettiest, richest fish in the little pond of Childress, wouldn't she? So she's used to "being on top" (as in the scene w/her and Jack where they do it in her daddy's caddy.)  Obviously Lashawn is kinda trashy (so is Lureen but she won't admit it!) and telling Lashawn her sorority is better (richer?) than Lashawn's is a way of putting Lashawn down. I posted this is another forum, but the first time Jack & Lureen meet they dance (it breaks my heart to see the look on Jack's face when he hears the word, "lonely" in the song) and then they have sex. At the dance, some years later, they don't dance ("husbands don't never seem to dance with their wives." and I think we can assume they don't have sex anymore.  To further provoke Lureen, Jack asks Lashawn to dance, because he won't dance with his wife. For a a charity affair, "Benefit for the Childress County Children's Home" - none of the characters are being especially charitable. (Childress = childless? chill dress? chilled ...?)

And one more comment on an earlier post. It took a couple of viewings but Jack's father-in-law, L.D. says about the football game, "You want your son to grow up to be a man, (man=hetero) don't you, daughter?" (although he looks at Jack) then "Boys should watch football." Watch Jack's face when the Ignorant Ass/Dumbass Mule says that.

>>whew!!<< didn't mean to ramble on so much! It's just that once you see one connection it just continues to build like a huge beautiful spider web.

For a later discussion on double meaning, I love this line and would like to hear other's opinions, “Doubt there’s a filly that can throw me.” And later, “eh,...she got lucky.” - Jack

 

[Brown Eyes]

Wow! I just read this thread and my head is buzzing! My words are tripping over themselves. I LOVE to analyze things and I'm so happy that I found Bettermost and to know there are "people like me out there." (Is that a pun??) Anyway... referring back to earlier posts. It's funny but today for the first time (before I read this forum) I thought, Mar means water but also damage. Then I read it here, too.

coffeecat33, you've definitely come to the right place!  This forum is filled with tons of threads devoted to tons of analysis there are also quite a few serious film analysis threads over in Chez Tremblay if you poke around a bit.   Yes, there are lots of "people like you" out here on BetterMost.

I also love Jack's face, as you point out, in his dance with Lureen... with the "lonely" in the lyric.  It echos the moment when Ennis is sitting on the edge of the bed with Alma and she talks about being "lonely."  It's been pointed out by some of our lovely BetterMostians that Ennis's face changes upon hearing the word "lonely" too.  It's much more subtle in Ennis's case.  But, I think this is meant to be a parallel between the boys long distance.  The song that Jack and Lureen dance to is really quite ominous and sort of threatening when you really listen to the lyrics.  Very possessive lyics when it comes to the idea of being in love.

[coffeecat33]

It echos the moment when Ennis is sitting on the edge of the bed with Alma and she talks about being "lonely."  It's been pointed out by some of our lovely BetterMostians that Ennis's face changes upon hearing the word "lonely" too.  It's much more subtle in Ennis's case.  But, I think this is meant to be a parallel between the boys long distance.

by atz75

Yes, I had noted that parallel or bookend, of scenes with Ennis and Jack when they hear the word,"lonely." Both scenes end with the men having sex with women - Lureen on top of Jack in a "dominant" position and Ennis takes Alma the way he took Jack.

cc33

[stevenedel]

I just posted this in the new thread about Ennis's reaction to Jack's death... but I thought I'd post it here too.About the sorority conversation...  I don't know enough about the politics of sororities to know much about the context of their conversation.  But, the tone of voice is enough to imply that there's a bit of competitiveness.  I certainly wouldn't call it a "catfight."  I think they're just trying to figure one another out.  I would think that the person who'd feel the most threatened by this conversation would be Jack.  Clearly, the women and Randall are all college educated, so I'd think Jack would feel like the "black sheep" here once again.  I actually think LaShawn is trying to reach out to Lureen a little bit by saying "we ain't quite sorority sisters...", implying that they are close to being so.  I think primarily LaShawn is trying to be friendly and social.  One of my favorite "double" meanings in LaShawn's conversation is when she says "we may just have to dance with ourselves..."  It's one of the only allusions to something even vaguely lesbian in the movie.  In the bar when Jack first meets Lureen there's a pair of women who seem to be walking around together and I've always wondered if we're meant to see them as a possible couple too.  I think so much of this movie is about questioning typical and conventional interpretations of people and comments.

Maybe 'catfight' is a bit strong Still, I don't find the scene at all friendly. No doubt Lashawn's intentions are OK, she simply talks so fast that she hasn't got the time to think what she is saying. But Lureen, says the screenplay, is bored stiff, and I do believe she feels insulted by Lashawns remark and feels the need to stress her own superiority. Jack, though detached, appears completely at ease to me - he doesn't seem the type to be impressed by academic titles.

The lesbian angle is an interesting one, hadn't considered that (but that's probably caused by the fact that to a gay man, lesbians may well be the most incomprehensible creatures on the face of the earth  )

[dly64]

Maybe 'catfight' is a bit strong Still, I don't find the scene at all friendly. No doubt Lashawn's intentions are OK, she simply talks so fast that she hasn't got the time to think what she is saying. But Lureen, says the screenplay, is bored stiff, and I do believe she feels insulted by Lashawns remark and feels the need to stress her own superiority. Jack, though detached, appears completely at ease to me - he doesn't seem the type to be impressed by academic titles.

The lesbian angle is an interesting one, hadn't considered that (but that's probably caused by the fact that to a gay man, lesbians may well be the most incomprehensible creatures on the face of the earth  )

I agree with you. I don't think Jack cares one iota about the others’ academic titles. The only thing I see is that Jack is noticing Randall checking him out. IMO, the only reason why he asks LaShawn to dance is to spite Lureen. The whole time he’s dancing, he looks back at the table. (Of course, one can question if Jack is looking at the table to see Lureen’s reaction or Randall’s. Hmmmm ….)

The lesbian thing … I highly doubt it. Lureen is completely bitter because Jack is not attracted to her. As for LaShawn … she talks too much. I doubt that she is thinking about what she I saying. CLUELESS!!

[Brown Eyes]

The lesbian thing … I highly doubt it. Lureen is completely bitter because Jack is not attracted to her. As for LaShawn … she talks too much. I doubt that she is thinking about what she I saying. CLUELESS!!

I know that LaShawn didn't mean it that way and that Lureen probably didn't hear it that way... but still I think the double meaning is there. 

[Mikaela]

IMO, the only reason why he asks LaShawn to dance is to spite Lureen.

I've seen others say that as well - but I honestly don't see why Jack would want to spite Lureen? I just don't see him as that kind of person, never actively spiteful.....even in those later disapponted years. He knows, none better, what the marriage has become and why. IMO he'd echo Ennis if he had to: Shut up about Lureen. This ain't her fault.

In my view, Jack asks Lashawn to dance in order to get out of an increasingly embarrassing and awkward situation, in order to have time to collect his thoughts a bit and regroup. Randall visibly checking him out, LaShawn contributing her cluelessly and increasingly ironic remarks, Lureen watching and adding her little barbed comments on the side;  getting onto the dance floor with a woman who will  manage to entertain herself completely seems like a good retreat option for Jack just there and then.

The most unintentionally ironic line LaShawn delivers, and hence another line with double meaning, is the complaint that the two husbands "Don't have a smidging of rhythm between them". In all likelihood, soon there's going to be quite a lot of rhythm between those two guys....     And Jack actually seems to possibly make that connection, too  - at least IMO he does a little double-take at Lashawn's comment.

From Amanda
I know that LaShawn didn't mean it that way and that Lureen probably didn't hear it that way... but still I think the double meaning is there. 

I agree with that. LaShawn didn't mean it that way but in the context of this film the hinted double meaning is absolutely there.

[serious crayons]

The most ironic line LaShawn delivers, and hence another line with double meaning, is the complaint that the two husbands "Don't have a smidging of rhythm between them". In all likelihood, soon there's going to be quite a lot of rhythm between those two guys. And Jack actually seems to make that connection, too  - at least IMO he does a little double-take at Lashawn's comment.

That's interesting, Mikaela. I never read the comment that way before. I always took "they have no rhythm" as an unwitting euphemism for "they have no interest in heterosexual sex" or something like that -- in other words, an echo of Lureen's "husbands never wanna dance with their wives."

But your way works just as well!

[Mikaela]

unwitting euphemism for "they have no interest in heterosexual sex" [  ] But your way works just as well!

In other words, a line with (at least) triple meanings! 

I think it was the "between them" sent my thoughts in that particular direction. Lashawn could have complained about the lack of dancing skills/hinted lack of interest in heterosexual sex in lots of different ways without wording it that particular way....... So here I am to pick up her cluelessly dropped remark.