Author Topic: Why the Lie?  (Read 52686 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Why the Lie?
« on: May 25, 2006, 10:58:25 pm »
So, this is a relatively straight forward question.  Why does Ennis lie to Alma about how he knows Jack?  When she asks whether they had cowboy-ed together (by the way I love the use of the word cowboy as a verb!) he says, no, that they were fishing buddies.  Why doesn't he want her to know they had worked together?  I truly don't understand the reasoning here.
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 11:13:07 pm »
I've wondered this, too. Maybe it's partly that Ennis occasionally says things that don't quite make sense when he's flustered and thinking about Jack. ("He's from Texas." "Texans don't drink coffee?") It makes some sense that he tells Alma that Jack rodeos, but I'm not sure why he thinks of fishing. (It certainly sets up the later trips, but I don't quite see why Ennis thinks of it in the first place.)

On the other hand, there's the whole water/love metaphor thing...? (And passion/rodeo, maybe? If you really stretch and squint at it?)
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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 11:16:02 pm »
Hmmm, I don't know.  At first I thought (flippantly): because it was in the script!  I wasn't actually going to say that but I couldn't think of a good alternative.  Seems somewhat 'clever' of Ennis to predict the metaphor that he was to use for his trysts with Jack over the next 16 years.  He could just as easily said "an old work buddy" and no one would have been the wiser, but "fishing" as a metaphor would not have come up and we'd need something else in the script to introduce it.  My thought, it was just a short-cut in the script to establish the metaphor.  Happy to be wrong about that though...
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 11:26:06 pm »
Well, even if they were cowboys together they could still be buddies.  And it would still make sense that they might want to hang out and go fishing, etc. in the future.   Does Ennis worry that there is a perception that two cowboys up alone on a mountain might have gotten "too" cozy?  Is he that worried about perceptions?
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Offline Meryl

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 11:46:55 pm »
In thinking about this, I decided it makes sense that Ennis wants to distance Alma as much as possible from Jack because he felt guilty/confused about the relationship from the very beginning.  As he and Jack got closer and closer to each other on the mountain, wouldn't Ennis have been thinking about Alma and wondering what it was going to be like living and making love with her?  When he returned to her after that summer, he probably said very little about Jack because he felt he had done something with him that she would most definitely have been hurt by, had she known.

Over the years before Jack reappeared, Ennis kept him as his guilty secret, "wringing it out" in private to feel close to him again.  When the postcard came, probably all sorts of alarm bells went off in Ennis's subconscious.  God forbid Alma should get an inkling of what he and Jack had been to each other while working together for those months.  The lie popped out as a matter of course.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 03:20:08 am by meryl »
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Online serious crayons

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2006, 01:17:40 am »
Over the years before Jack reappeared, Ennis kept him as his guilty secret, "wringing it out" in private to feel close to him again.  When the postcard came, probably all sorts of alarm bells went off in Ennis's subconcious.  God forbid Alma should get an inkling of what he and Jack had been to each other while working together for those months.  The lie popped out as a matter of course.

Good timing, Amanda -- I was particularly wondering about this question as I watched the DVD this very day. My opinion is pretty close to Meryl's. I think he lies reflexively, because he wants to keep that time private and special and as separate from Alma as he can. In response to her question he easily could have said, "We didn't cowboy together, but we did herd sheep together [if he wanted to be technical]one summer." Well, next she might have asked where and when, and maybe what that was like, and who knows what questions after that. Sure, he could have given perfectly innocuous answers the whole way. But imagine him even having to say the word "Brokeback" to her, given all he must associate with that word. She would never guess anything from it, but it would feel like a violation to him. (The only time he ever does say it to anyone, Lureen immediately grasps its significance.) He keeps the information to himself less to avoid hurting her or to let something slip about his sexuality than to prevent Alma's awareness from intruding on his memories of that beautiful sacrosanct time.

I'm so glad you asked this, Amanda, because as usual it adds to even deeper appreciation of his feelings.

On a slightly different but related topic, today when I watched the DVD I paid extra extra close attention to the bedroom scene. Of course I knew Ennis was thinking about Jack in this scene from the very first time I watched, (though my being clued in to his doing the same in the tar spreading and drive-in movie scenes came much later). And of course we've talked about the significance of Alma using the word "lonely" and the wind howling immediately afterward. But today I scooted right up by the screen and watched that moment twice. And it's so amazing how you see Ennis' face change -- he starts out just vaguely pensive, possibly thinking generally about Jack, then at the word 'lonely" he freezes, looking off to the side (as he often does when thinking about Jack), not just pensive now but very subtly desolate, as if the word reminds him of the possibility that he'll never see Jack again and will always be lonely for him. He pauses for a couple of long sad moments ... then he swallows as if gathering his resolve to do his husbandly duty, turns to Alma and says "aint so lonely now, is it?"

Wow.




Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2006, 02:04:20 am »
though my being clued in to his doing the same in the tar spreading and drive-in movie scenes came much later

Huh?  Was there a discussion on this that I missed?  How is it that we can tell Ennis is thinking of Jack while spreading tar and at the drive-in?  I just about agree with everything you see in the film, but this one (particularly the drive-in) escapes me.  Was it on TOB?
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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2006, 02:30:33 am »
Yes, these concepts are from TOB. Sorry to talk in shorthand, though I don't want to go over things if people are already familiar with them. The threads were long, but as briefly as possible here are some of the main points:

Tar-spreading scene: The guy Ennis is working with reminds Ennis in a negative way of Jack (he's neither cute nor fun), and also of how Ennis himself could very well wind up in 20 years. Ennis is wearing a blue plaid shirt (Jack's colors). The big clue is the other guy says something like "the wife said I would break my back working blah blah blah" and it's those words that trigger Ennis to stand up and look wistfully off to one side into the distance, as he always does when thinking of Jack.

Drive-in scene: The woman in the movie is emerging from a trailer, a reminder of Aguirre's trailer. There was some talk of what the actual movie is onscreen, which I missed, though I think that may be significant, too. (Starboardlight, if you read this, weren't you in on that discussion?) And Alma grabs Ennis' hand and presses it to her pregnant belly in a way reminiscent of Jack's grabbing Ennis' hand in TS1.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2006, 04:33:56 am »
Quote
In thinking about this, I decided it makes sense that Ennis wants to distance Alma as much as possible from Jack

I think Meryl is right here. For answering Amanda's question it's important that Ennis and Alma had known each other before Ennis met Jack. They were even close enough to be engaged (however this happened and whose descicion it was).
So it would have been normal/usual to share at least some stories about what happened during the months they were apart. Even for taciturn Ennis. I'm sure Alma asked him about it. And it would have been natural to tell your fiancee about your coworker/compagnion, especially if you refer to him later as a friend. But Ennis didn't do this.
So Brokeback dropped out as possible explanation for who Jack was.

Right in this moment I have an idea: Maybe the rodeo answer just slipped out before Ennis thought about it (he was excited about the postcard). Then he had to find another explanation (other than cowboy-ing) from where he knew Jack, and quickly. This is what the screenplay says:

Alma: "Is he somebody you cowboy'ed with?"
Ennis stares at the postcard.
Ennis: "Jack rodeos, mostly.
          (pause)
          We was fishing buddies..."

Notice the pause. It fits to my explanation, doesn't it? Ennis blabbered out about Jack and rodeo before he began to think. Rare for Ennis, to speak without thinking before. But it shows us how excited, delighted and agitated he was about the postcard.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 05:19:39 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2006, 05:45:54 am »
Notice the pause. It fits to my explanation, doesn't it? Ennis blabbered out about Jack and rodeo before he began to think. Rare for Ennis, to speak without thinking before. But it shows us how excited, delighted and agitated he was about the postcard.

I think you maybe right Penthesilea, about the faux paus I mean.  If I were to follow your train of thought, Ennis is clearly listening to Jack's voice in his head as he reads and re-reads the postcard.  The "slip" about Jack rodeoing links in with "my dady thought that rodeo cowboys were all f*ck-ups".  Then he snaps two (after a pause) and throws in "fishing buddies" to cover it.
Nothing is as common as the wish to be remarkable - William Shakespeare