Why are the poor, poor?

[injest]

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/03/30/the_sting_of_poverty/?page=full

an interesting theory...

[brokeplex]

"Social conservatives have tended to argue that poor people lack the smarts or willpower to make the right choices. Social liberals have countered by blaming racial prejudice and the crippling conditions of the ghetto for denying the poor any choice in their fate. Neoconservatives have argued that antipoverty programs themselves are to blame for essentially bribing people to stay poor."

I don't know of any social conservatives who opine that the poor lack smarts.

I do know of conservatives who argue that antipoverty programs are partly to blame for the cycle of generations of the poor on welfare.

The term "neocon" is much misused in today's politics, the reference above is one of the few times that I have seen it used correctly again.

[Kelda]

I thin for every one there is one who lacks the smarts there is one of the other who is prejudiced in some way...

I very much skimmed read this as I never have the patience but I think its certainly got an element of truth in it.

And have these people who debate this have never ever had to worry about what they might eat tomorrow or whether they can afford to go to college.. I often find it hard to see how they can debate what they dont really know...

[delalluvia]

"Social conservatives have tended to argue that poor people lack the smarts or willpower to make the right choices. Social liberals have countered by blaming racial prejudice and the crippling conditions of the ghetto for denying the poor any choice in their fate. Neoconservatives have argued that antipoverty programs themselves are to blame for essentially bribing people to stay poor."

I don't know of any social conservatives who opine that the poor lack smarts.

I do know of conservatives who argue that antipoverty programs are partly to blame for the cycle of generations of the poor on welfare.

The term "neocon" is much misused in today's politics, the reference above is one of the few times that I have seen it used correctly again.

I do.

Other people just cannot bring themselves to believe that all people aren't smart enough to become a programmer or surgeon or engineer or lawyer or MBA.  THEY did, so they seem to imagine that everyone can do the same if they wanted to and if they haven't or won't it's because of sheer laziness and thus poverty is their own fault.

[Clyde-B]

  We teach our kids more than we realize just by living our lives.  If we're on welfare, they learn by example how to work the welfare system.  Why believe in the Puritan work ethic if nobody you know has ever made it work?  If we're salesmen, they learn how to sell.  If we trust the stock market and invest, they learn to trust investing and something about how to invest in stocks and bonds. 

  And this doesn't have to be taught by us sitting down and lecturing, it can be learned day by day, just by our kids watching us live and listening to us talk about how we make it in the world.  It tough to teach your kids something if you don't know it yourself.

   The problem is, we don't all grow up with the same advantages.  The rich grow up learning how to be rich.  The poor grow up learning how to be poor.

[Clyde-B]

I would agree with that.

I have relatives that have been on welfare all their lifes....I am thinking of one in particular....his father passed away when he was very little...his mother was on welfare all the time he was growing up. I think he just thinks that IS life..to sit around and wait for the monthly check to show up. That is what he has been taught.

Yeah, me too.  One of my dearest friends was raised to believe that you got one shot at life.  When he blew his big chance, he gave up.  Never could get him to understand that you get as many chances as you're willing to take.

[brokeplex]

I do.

Other people just cannot bring themselves to believe that all people aren't smart enough to become a programmer or surgeon or engineer or lawyer or MBA.  THEY did, so they seem to imagine that everyone can do the same if they wanted to and if they haven't or won't it's because of sheer laziness and thus poverty is their own fault.

All people do not have the inclination or training to become a surgeon. It is silly to think that everyone does. And that isn't the point. The point is most people can have control of their own destinies, there are exceptions to this, but overall people can become a success according to their own or even society's definitions.

If people are sitting around waiting for a welfare check, or if they give up because their car breaks down, then that too is their choice. They are choosing the destiny with which they are comfortable. They may gripe about their limited opportunity, they may gripe that they are not making $100K per year while sitting in front of their TV sets stuffing their faces with Twinkies while watching Oprah cry, but ultimately, they made the choices in their lives to allow the system to control them and not the other way around.

What the present welfare system does is give these non productive people a easy landing into their sloth.

Social Worker to Welfare Victim:

 "Its OK honey, why you are a just a VICTIM, you are not responsible for your life or the lives of the 4 children in your house who all have different fathers none of which you are married to. You need to just sit down fill your mind with crap off the TV and we welfare / social workers will just take care of everything. Oh and be sure to register to vote so that WE can keep those nasty old Republican racist / misogynist / meanies from harming you further!"

and the tragedy of the welfare cycle goes on and on and on.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Speaking only for myself, because two years ago I saw Brokeback Mountain and suddenly nothing else mattered.
Go to Wyoming, no problem, go to Alberta, no problem, Taxes, what taxes........

But its coming around. 

[HerrKaiser]

If people are sitting around waiting for a welfare check, or if they give up because their car breaks down, then that too is their choice. They are choosing the destiny with which they are comfortable. They may gripe about their limited opportunity, they may gripe that they are not making $100K per year while sitting in front of their TV sets stuffing their faces with Twinkies while watching Oprah cry, but ultimately, they made the choices in their lives to allow the system to control them and not the other way around.

I think this is spot on.

The original thesis by the author was as sad commentary on the human condition. He suggests that six bee stings (many problems) just go unattended to by people because it is just too hard to deal with more than one bee sting. I wonder if the men fighting at D Day felt that way? Clearly not. Or the astronaust in apollo 13? Don't think so. Or any of the millions of poor kids who make it big. Probably not.

I find the thesis to be yet another attempt to excuse behavior that has led to unproductive lives. A previous poster indicated a suspicion about commentators on poverty if they have never been poor; excellent point. But, the other side to that coin is how many more of us HAVE been poor (as the poster indicated...unable to pay for college, not knowing where the next day's food or housing would come from, etc) and pulled up the boot straps and dealt with all six bee stings.

Some people are weak and incapable of dealing with one bee sting, much less six, agreed. But the safety net that was put in place to help the truly incapable has become a hammock for millions of folks who just find it easier to run to ER for the bee stings than apply some remedy on their own.

[Jeff Wrangler]

You are not responsible for your life or the lives of the 4 children in your house who all have different fathers none of which you are married to.

And God forbid we should do anything to help keep you from getting pregnant, other than to tell you to not have sex, which you won't listen to anyway because people have been ignoring that advice since the beginning of time. ...