Author Topic: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?  (Read 6852 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Heya,

So, I watched BBM again today and it never, ever fails that I think up a new question or observation every time I watch.

This time it's a sort of complex idea, but I think pretty interesting.  The one explicit scene we see of Aguirre watching Jack and Ennis together up on Brokeback, clearly comes during the scene we often call the "happy tussle" right after TS2.  The happy tussle scene is first presented to the viewer as a long-shot, simply observing Jack and Ennis's romp from quite a distance.  It's only after the camera swings around and we see that we were actually inhabiting the place of Aguirre from behind his binoculars (with large, powerful lenses) that we understand how we were able to see the boys' romp.

This got me thinking about a few other scenes earlier in the film, actually prior to TS1 where we see Ennis and Jack interacting from quite a far distance/ through the filmmaker's use of the "long shot"... there are about 3 instances when they're picking camp sites, moving the flock and setting up camp when we see them from quite far off and we can hear the murmurs of their voices as they talk to each other... but, we are too far away to understand what they're saying.  In those "long shot" moments I've always felt like I, as a viewer, am being placed in the position of a voyeur or a trespasser on their private interactions.

One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

And, then what are the implications for the way the later camping trips are filmmed with Jack and Ennis in the years following the reunion?  In the many  long shots and very distant views we get on Jack and Ennis in several of their later camping trips, are we supposed to wonder or imagine that there are other observers (i.e. other campers, etc.) watching them from afar like we are?


« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 10:25:23 pm by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline mariez

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2008, 09:49:47 pm »
Amanda, you come up with some great observations! 

One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

I think he started watching them earlier.  We don't have any direct indication that he did, but by the time of the happy tussle they would have been up there, what, about a month?  I don't think he would've waited that long to start watching them; he seemed pretty cynical ("pair of deuces") about how well they would follow instructions and just about them in general.

And, then what are the implications for the way the later camping trips are filmmed with Jack and Ennis in the years following the reunion?  In the many  long shots and very distant views we get on Jack and Ennis in several of their later camping trips, are we supposed to wonder or imagine that there are other observers (i.e. other campers, etc.) watching them from afar like we are?

I don't think this ever occurred to me, but it's really interesting to consider!  As with almost everything in the story, there are a couple of ways to look at it.  If they were being watched from afar, it would show that even way out in the "middle of nowhere" they couldn't get away from society's prying eyes (but, yet, none of the "observers" came after them with tire irons). 

Or those later long shots and very distant views could be a way of showing us just how far out in the middle of nowhere they needed to go in order to be truly free from prying eyes and danger. 

Thanks, Amanda!  :)

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2008, 10:35:32 pm »

Thanks Marie!

And, I agree that I think Aguirre probably started watching Jack and Ennis earlier on.  It's only during the happy tussle when the viewer (i.e. us) begins to understand how the activity of observing Jack and Ennis is portrayed on film or through the medium of filmmaking.

If you watch earlier in the film when Jack and Ennis are picking a camp site with the sheep, there's a very particular scene where Jack is on his horse parallel to the film screen (or he's shown in profile on his horse looking left) and Ennis enters the scene on his horse coming or emerging from the space of the viewer.  In that scene it's very clear that Jack and Ennis are talking to one another, but it's very, very hard to hear what they're saying.  If you turn the volume up really, really far you might be able to make it out. 

And, then later when they're setting up TS2, there's that famous long-shot/ distant view of Jack selecting the driftwood log near the stream and Ennis comes up and seems to pat Jack on the shoulder as he hoists the log up.  This is another instance where the view is so far away, that we feel very excluded from direct access to the activity going on.

So, these two moments really make me wonder if there's at least a hint that we're watching from a similar vantage point as Aguirre does through his binoculars during the happy tussle.

There are lots of much later camping scenes that employ long shots... and also the device of muffled voices... of Jack and Ennis talking to one another without the viewer being able to hear clearly.

It's such an unusual filmming strategy.  I really do wonder if this is really meant to make the viewer feel like an intruder on these private moments... or moments that Jack and Ennis really want to keep as private and personal.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2008, 10:36:17 pm »
Merci atz !

Your post is very interesting!

Could it be possible that Aquirre is gay, or pro-gay, or neutral???

He sure has an eye ? So, could he be a con-artist instead?-Somewhat one?

Or what is he ?

To me, that long shot camera range, as you put it, provides questions, at least that can be posed?


What do you think Atz, Mariez, and others ???


Au revoir,
hugs!


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2008, 10:38:23 pm »


Well, this question isn't so much about Aguirre's attitude one way or another.  It's about the clue we get about viewing positions based on Aguirre's use of binoculars.

This is about where we as viewers are situated when we observe Jack and Ennis in the film.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2008, 11:18:11 pm »
Atz:

I was just about to say what you say:
            It's about the clue we get about viewing positions based on Aguirre's use of binoculars.

This is about where we as viewers are situated when we observe Jack and Ennis in the film.

           

........

To me, that long shot provides anwser(s) at leats one answered by Mariez; and especially adds questions (some I mentioned)!!

But, it's much, much, much more... like forecasting trouble is coming! ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2008, 06:04:45 am »
There a some really good observations Amanda :D.

The happy tussle scene is first presented to the viewer as a long-shot, simply observing Jack and Ennis's romp from quite a distance.  It's only after the camera swings around and we see that we were actually inhabiting the place of Aguirre from behind his binoculars (with large, powerful lenses) that we understand how we were able to see the boys' romp.

My reaction to this swing of the camera was first a sharp intake of breath, like OMG, Aguirre is watching them, they're caught. Followed by a vague sense of being the voyeur myself, almost feeling guilty about it.


Quote
There are lots of much later camping scenes that employ long shots... and also the device of muffled voices... of Jack and Ennis talking to one another without the viewer being able to hear clearly.

It's such an unusual filmming strategy.  I really do wonder if this is really meant to make the viewer feel like an intruder on these private moments... or moments that Jack and Ennis really want to keep as private and personal.

Yes, definitively. The long distance shots are one way Ang Lee demonstrated this to us. Lee himself often emphasized how sacred their relationship is to them, and that they want to keep it private because it is so precious. I think keeping it a secret was both, a curse and a blessing. It was a curse because they were forced to keep it secret and it took its toll over the years (think of the lake side argument). But especially in the earlier years it was also a blessing, it was at least partly wanted by them because it made it even more special, sweet and sacred. A sweet secret.


Quote
One question I have in relation to this observation is, do we think that those earlier "long shot" moments can be taken as indications of moments when Aguirre was watching them (with us in Aguirre's shoes and watching through his vantage point)?  Or, more simply put, was the happy tussle the first time he watched them?  Or did he start watching earlier.

Referring to the short story he didn't: "They believed themselves invisible, not knowing Joe Aguirre had watched them through his 10X42 binoculars for ten minutes one day, waiting ..."

I think this is exactly what Ang Lee wanted to show us, I don't think he intented to hint that Aguirre (or someone else in the later years) watched them. We (the audience)are the voyeurs, but even we are not allowed to see and hear everything. Restraint, as so often with Lee. He doesn't expose everything of the boys, in parts he allows them to keep their privacy, their secret.

I know I'm mixing different viewpoints in the last sentence; the outside viewpoint from a moviemaker's position, and the viewpoint from within the story, where Ennis and Jack are real. But I think that's just what Ang Lee did (and every movie making person should do, be it actor, screenwriter or director): thinking about how something effects the audience and thinking inside the logic, the circumstances of the story.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2008, 11:51:37 am »
Like a Bettermost member, I will not name, would say maybe: Aquirre is house-sitting his two boys-ranch young men Ennis and Jack so to see if they are doing their job keeping the sheep well and alive; Aquirre's investment are those animals !! So that camera long shot showing Aquirre looking at them is a nescessity for Aquirre to keep his money investment as well as we, the audience become in Aquirre's feet as a voyeur!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2008, 07:56:07 pm »

My reaction to this swing of the camera was first a sharp intake of breath, like OMG, Aguirre is watching them, they're caught. Followed by a vague sense of being the voyeur myself, almost feeling guilty about it.
 
...


I think this is exactly what Ang Lee wanted to show us, I don't think he intented to hint that Aguirre (or someone else in the later years) watched them. We (the audience)are the voyeurs, but even we are not allowed to see and hear everything. Restraint, as so often with Lee. He doesn't expose everything of the boys, in parts he allows them to keep their privacy, their secret.

I know I'm mixing different viewpoints in the last sentence; the outside viewpoint from a moviemaker's position, and the viewpoint from within the story, where Ennis and Jack are real. But I think that's just what Ang Lee did (and every movie making person should do, be it actor, screenwriter or director): thinking about how something effects the audience and thinking inside the logic, the circumstances of the story.

Thanks Chrissi! :)

I think your point about a vague (perhaps very vague) sense of guilt on the part of the viewer for intruding is a really interesting element of BBM to recognize.  And, I completely agree that sorting out the film viewer's point of view, the filmmaker's point of view and the various points of view of characters within the story is a really complex task.  But, it's interesting to think that Ang Lee is going to some effort (in the happy tussle scene and maybe in other scenes too) to make us the film viewer very aware that we have a role of some kind within the structure of the film. 

So, here's a big question.  Are we supposed to funchtion as "society" in our constant desire to observe the interactions between Ennis and Jack?  Are we the faceless, mass society that is always of concern to Ennis in particular?

And, as you mention, Ang Lee protects Ennis and Jack from us in certain scenes when we can't see them well and can't really hear what they're saying to each other.  I agree that the secret between Jack and Ennis is both a blessing and a curse.

Thinking about scenes later in the film when we seem to be positioned as film viewers as unwelcome voyeurs... the skinny dipping scene comes to mind as another case were we view what Ennis and Jack are doing from a great distance.  We can here the statement "last one in!!" as they jump into the water.  But, we're really mainly excluded from that scene.



the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2008, 08:13:23 pm »
Last one in, but too bad it's not a close-up!


So why so far away? Is LEE islamic?