Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll

[Lumière]

This is probably going to sound like heresy to some people, but I think we have gotten to the point where Ennis loves Ellery more than he loved Jack...or maybe, to phrase it better, more completely.

Good thing you are posting this here Leslie!  Anywhere else, you'd be walking into unsafe territory...
I agree that Ellery gets to take Ennis to places beyond his wildest dreams, places Jack would've wanted to go with him, but never got the go-ahead because of Ennis' fear of himself and his desires.  It's sad that he never got to love his first love the way he probably should've, but such is life ain't it?  We learn about ourselves as we go, from the people we meet and interact with and the relationships we forge with them.

[louisev]

One of the most ironic things my ex husband said to me six months after our divorce following a 13 year marriage was "Now you're the person I always hoped you would become."  Having closed the door on the relationship, he now found someone he wanted to be with. 

I don't think there is any way to put the ketchup back in the bottle.  The Ennis of 1984 in "Taking Chances" is who he is BECAUSE of losing Jack, and after his stepwise growth in acknowledging and mourning Jack, the Ennis of "A Second Chance" has accepted that he loved Jack because he has accepted loving Ellery.  He could not, in my opinion, have done it in isolation, he could not have done it without more relationship experience, and certainly not without a great deal of nurturing and counseling toward it.

He has the beginnings of an actual support structure and society now, that he never had at any point in the past.  Growth does not happen in a vacuum.  I have had the criticism leveled at my fics that Ellery is a "ready made solution" that reinforces a theory that you can't grow up and out of the closet without a partner.  And that has never been my view.  One cannot have relationship experience without experiencing relationships... and the greatest lack Ennis had was in forming relationships.  The relationship he had with Jack was very carefully, and rigidly bounded, and with the few skills Ennis had, even alone with Jack on a desert island with plenty of food and tropical winds, he would have run into relating trouble before experiencing the growth steps he needed to get through.  In my considered opinion.

[MaineWriter]

Good thing you are posting this here Leslie!  Anywhere else, you'd be walking into unsafe territory...

I promised Louise that this was a safe place, and Phillip backed me up.

Anyone else want to jump in on this discussion? I think it is very interesting but I don't want to monopolize the conversation. I'd like to hear some other folks' thoughts. Don't be shy...

[Meira]

Okay, gang...

For those who have followed Ennis from his first fumbling grope at the Rose Hotel back in chapter 23 of "Taking Chances" to his rope tricks in the middle of "A Second Chance", I want to know how you felt about the development of Dom!Ennis and his experiments with domination and bondage.

I am not so much asking whether it meets your taste (everyone has different tastes) but how you felt this has progressed in the story.   
/quote]

Hey Louise,  thanks for asking.  Personally, I felt the development of Dom!Ennis happened a little too fast to be believable (though I did enjoy every minute I spent reading about it!).  I guess the part I felt was less beleiveable was the experimentation with bondage; kind of too much too soon for the newness of the relationship, and for a guy who I perceive as fairly traditional.  I do feel that the other ways in which you have him expressing his dominance (directing and giving orders) is more within the realm of what I'd expect from Ennis exploring his newfound sexual freedom.  Just the 2 cents you asked for.  I am loving every minute of the time I get to spend reading their story (though a glutton I have rudely proved to be - sorry again for that).   -Meira

[MaineWriter]

I guess the part I felt was less beleiveable was the experimentation with bondage; kind of too much too soon for the newness of the relationship, and for a guy who I perceive as fairly traditional.  I do feel that the other ways in which you have him expressing his dominance (directing and giving orders) is more within the realm of what I'd expect from Ennis exploring his newfound sexual freedom.

Interesting comment, Meira. When I read these sections, I find myself reflecting back on the first months I was married. My husband and I got "out there" (I will leave where "out there" is to all of your fertile imaginations) very quickly...doing things neither of us had previously experienced/experimented with. I think it is that wild intoxication of love that just drives you somewhere...fast. I certainly see that Ennis and Ellery are in that "honeymoon" phase of their relationship (for want of a better word).

L

[neatfreak]

I am quite comfortable with Ennis' development in his sexuality and personal esteem; they go hand-in-hand. Honestly, this surprises me, because prior to this story I would have felt extremely uncomfortable with any mention of S/M behavior. Perhaps it's because I am so emotionally invested in Ennis' journey and because Louise's writing is so skillful that both men's love for each other is an inextricable part of their sex play.

Having said that, I'm sure there is a line that I would be uncomfortable crossing. That line has already moved, so I'm not sure where it is yet. Ennis and Ellery's relationship is one of mutual pleasure and love. So go for it, Louise. You haven't disappointed me yet.

[David]

So what is Ennis doing right now?   

[MaineWriter]

So what is Ennis doing right now?   

Given that it is 1:25 pm on a Wednesday afternoon in Laramie, I would guess working. 

[MaineWriter]

Having said that, I'm sure there is a line that I would be uncomfortable crossing. That line has already moved, so I'm not sure where it is yet. Ennis and Ellery's relationship is one of mutual pleasure and love. So go for it, Louise. You haven't disappointed me yet.

I can tell you where that line is for me: if Ellery were to say "Stop" or "No" and Ennis didn't. (This could also work in reverse.) However, I have no worries that this will happen. There has already been a time where Ellery has made that request, Ennis immediately complied, and Ellery was even a little surprised that it happened "on his say-so."

L

[David]

Given that it is 1:25 pm on a Wednesday afternoon in Laramie, I would guess working. 

Sure enough!