Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz

[serious crayons]

Happy Thanksgiving Brokies, and welcome to the Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz! Actually, it's not quite a quiz, because there are no hard-and-fast right and wrong answers. Mainly, it's just a way to celebrate the holiday, while getting back to discussing BBM symbolism (for those of us whose symbolism analysis skills may be getting a little rusty!).

The way it works is you pick one from the SYMBOLS column and match it with something from the MEANINGS column. There should be one for each, but some of the symbols may have more than one possible meaning, and some of the meanings may have more than one possible symbol. If you don't find a meaning you like, feel free to provide your own. That's the beauty of symbolism, it's largely in the eye of the beholder. The fun is in discussing them!

SYMBOLS


Electric knife


Lureen's blonde hair


Peaches and cereal


Ear stroke


Transparent bread bag


Sour expression


Punching a truck driver


Getting beat up


Swearing at your father-in-law


Yelling at your ex-wife



MEANINGS

Disappointment

Masculinity

Revelation

Learned affection

Compensating

Rebellion

Vibrator

Prop snafu

Not a sinner

Bitterness

[Marge_Innavera]

Electric knife

middle-class economic status (my addition)


Lureen's blonde hair

Compensating



Peaches and cereal

Is that what he's eating? I thought it was clam chowder!   



Ear stroke

Learned affection



Transparent bread bag

Prop snafu (I never noticed it!)



Sour expression

Bitterness. Also a kind of territorial resentment



Punching a truck driver


Getting beat up

Both compensation (an attempt at it anyway) and masculinity




Swearing at your father-in-law

Rebellion.  Could also be a common Thankgiving ritual!



Yelling at your [ex]wife

Revelation; also panic

[serious crayons]

Thanks for the reminder about the "ex," and good answers, Marge!

[Artiste]

And what about your ex-wive yelling at you, because you were happy with another man ?

[Brown Eyes]

 
K!  This quiz rocks!


Electric knife
Vibrator
Compensating
General symbol of Monroe being something of a disappointment and/or a bit "dorky" (for lack of a better term)




Lureen's blonde hair
Disappointment
Bitterness
I'd also say that this can be considered equivalent to Jack's moustache meaning something like disillusionment.




Peaches and cereal
This one is an eternal enigma and mystery. 
Though from the offered list, interestingly, it might have something to do with Rebellion




Ear stroke
Learned affection




Transparent bread bag
Revelation
I like "revelation" here... this whole scene seems to be abour revealing truths or newfound honesty.




Sour expression
Bitterness
Disappointment




Punching a truck driver
Bitterness
Disappointment
To this I would add, something like "explosive outlet of frustration and pent-up emotional self-repression"




Getting beat up
Compensating
This I would say is also some kind of symbol of depression or a disturbing kind of masochism.




Swearing at your father-in-law
Masculinity
Rebellion
Bitterness
Disappointment
Revelation




Yelling at your [ex-] wife
Rebellion
Bitterness
Disappointment
Revelation

[Penthesilea]

Electric knife - Vibrator

You know why sweetie




Lureen's blonde hair - Disappointment

Lureen had reason to be disappointed by her marriage, and she was. But she was not as bitter as Alma was; she had her business to concentrate on. Compensation fits here, too. But I decided to take compensation for another one.




Peaches and cereal - Prop Snafu

I'm sure it didn't take Lureen three hours to fix a bowl of cereals




Ear stroke - learned affection

see reunion, at the campfire, Jack stroking Ennis's ear in the same way




Transparent bread bag - Revelation

bread symbolizes Ennis's sexuality. In earlier scenes, the bread is hidden like his sexuality is to Alma. In this scene, she's about to reveal it, just like the bread is out in the open




Sour expression - Bitterness

Alma was bitter fer sure




Punching a truck driver - Compensating

Ennis saw his masculinity threatened by Alam's revelation that she knew about him and Jack, so he compensated by proving to himself that he was a "real man"




Getting beat up - Masculinity

See above. It's real manly to get into fights, isn't it?




Swearing at your father-in-law - Rebellion




Yelling at your ex-wife - Not a sinner

"That don't mean nothin Alma. ... You don't know nothing about it." I'm not a sinner, I didn't do what you accuse me of



Great quiz sister-mod!

[Marina]

Fun quiz!  I love symbolism.


Sour expression - learned affection - or I'd say residual affection, it's more of a begrudgingly affectionate look, possibily remembering what she loved about him in the first place - enjoying watching Ennis' wonderful way with their daughters and talking about his rodeo ride, but maybe still a bit angry with him.  It's like Alma moved on because she had to, but she never really forgot him on a certain level, and so much she didn't understand.  She still has residual feelings, or something unresolved.  Otherwise, why the upset in the kitchen over Jack? 

Lureen's blonde hair - Compensation - something, anything, to keep/get Jack's attention and love.  Something/Someone takes his attention away from her; he don't never seem to dance with his wife no more.  Maybe she can fix it, if she just tries hard enough.  She got blonder and blonder as time went on.  But these women had such love for their husbands; I loved Lureen's look of satisfaction and pride when Jack stood up to her father.

Which brings me to:

Swearing at your father-in-law - Masculinity, or the traditional concept of it.  Jack's the stud duck in this pond now, supplanting the alpha wolf.   Man of the house at the head of the table, standing and carving the turkey.  Probably he'd do the barbecue too.   

Transparent bread bag - Revelation - All becomes clear to Alma, she finally admits it to herself, what she'd known along since she saw Jack and Ennis kissing.

Electric knife - well . . .

Ear Stroke - learned affection, or just plain affection - I absolutely loved Ennis' way with his daughters; he may not have had a lot of money, but he sure had a lot of love for them.    I loved during his argument with Alma when she had to go to work to supplement the family income; he asked the girls if they "wanted a push or somethin'" switching to father mode, albeit a bit gruffly, and they reply "Noooo" in unison to the sound of the swings creaking.

Peaches and cereal - prop snafu?  Not traditional Thanksgiving fare. 

Swearing at your ex-wife - Rebellion.  You don't know nothin' about it, as in she didn't understand how it was between them -  a defense of his relationship with Jack, with the confirmation that Alma knew.  The conflict of Ennis' love for Jack and the way things were in society.

As well as Punching a Truck Driver - Disappointment - with the way things were, and lashing out at the first unfortunate soul who crossed his path.   Nobody could understand how it was between him 'n Jack, and sometimes men express their pain and hurt through aggression.

Getting Beat Up - almost like he wanted to feel the pain, felt he deserved it.  I'm not a sinner.     Poor Ennis, such conflicting emotions about what he felt for Jack, and the negative messages from his father and society.  And then the next scene, the peaceful intro of music as they ford a stream on horseback, not needing to say a thing between them.  Why do we do this to each other, when love is a beautiful and natural thing between all couples.   

Such an emotional film.

[serious crayons]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, cathyearnshaw. With a username like that, I can understand why you appreciate symbolism!    That's one of my OTHER favorite sources.

 

[jstephens9]

SYMBOLS


Electric knife
Vibrator



Lureen's blonde hair
Rebellion


Peaches and cereal
Compensating


Ear stroke
Learned affection


Transparent bread bag
Prop snafu


Sour expression
Disappointment



Punching a truck driver
Masculinity


Getting beat up
Not a sinner


Swearing at your father-in-law
Revelation


Yelling at your ex-wife
Bitterness

[Brown Eyes]

So, I have a question about the clear bread bag scene.  I recall conversations about the clear bread bag in this argument scene between Ennis and Alma on Thanksgiving being a "bookend" to an earlier kitchen scene where there is a loaf of bread in a paper/opaque bag.  If I recall correctly, the idea is that in the earlier scene, everyone is keeping secrets, but in this Thanksgiving scene truths are revealed.

I thought that the earlier bookend scene was the scene where Ennis receives Jack's first postcard in the kitchen of his apartment.  I just spent some time looking for the screencap on Striped Wall of this parallel bread bag.  And, well, I don't see that bread bag in that scene.  I've come to learn that Striped Wall's collection of screencaps is not complete (by any means).  So, maybe Striped Wall didn't archive the exact right shot depicting th bread in the paper bag.  But, I'm wondering if I'm not remembering which scene is the bookend correctly.  Any expert Brokie words of wisdom on this subject would be much appreciated, because it's going to drive me nuts until I remember correctly.  I may even have to watch the movie!!
 

It's interesting, though, to think about how many similar scenes there are in the film of Ennis and Alma in the kitchen... with the sink involved.

[ifyoucantfixit]

       Using electric knife.---------  compensating for lack of masculinity.  Needs something to compensate lack of  strength.

       Lureen's bleached blond hair.----------  Trying to gain attention.  She is desperate to change what is not working.

       Peaches and Cereal.----------  An innocent start.   Someone who doesnt understand the real now, and its importance.

       Ear stroke.-----------  Learned behavior.  Trying to relay what was his feeling when he recieved that touch.

       Transparent bread bag. ---------  Ready to reveal something that has been hidden.

       Sour Expression.----------  The old way is spoiled, and the new way is not what was wanted.

       Punching the truck driver.---------   Showing to all outward appearances his masculinity.. Not a chickenshit.

       Getting beaten up. -----------  Showing a double meaning, he can take it like a man.

       Swearing at your father-in-law.----------  Showing not afraid to stand up to authority figures.

       Yelling at your x-wife. ---------  Letting her know that you are still in charge of your life.  Not a whipped man.
       

       

       
       

[jstephens9]

There's JANICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[Penthesilea]

So, I have a question about the clear bread bag scene.  I recall conversations about the clear bread bag in this argument scene between Ennis and Alma on Thanksgiving being a "bookend" to an earlier kitchen scene where there is a loaf of bread in a paper/opaque bag.  If I recall correctly, the idea is that in the earlier scene, everyone is keeping secrets, but in this Thanksgiving scene truths are revealed.

because it's going to drive me nuts until I remember correctly.  I may even have to watch the movie!!
 

The bread in the closed, opaque box was in the kitchen scene at the lonsesome ranch:







Between those two kitchen scenes (first: at the lonesome ranch, third: Thanksgiving), we have a second kitchen scene where the bread is still in a box, but the box is open and you can see the bread. The bread is only half hidden. It's the scene when Ennis gets Jack's first postcard (and he washes his hands in the sink):






Oh, and the ventilator is prominently seen here. "Look what the wind blew in" - a postcard from Jack .

[Brown Eyes]

The bread in the closed, opaque box was in the kitchen scene at the lonsesome ranch:







Between those two kitchen scenes (first: at the lonesome ranch, third: Thanksgiving), we have a second kitchen scene where the bread is still in a box, but the box is open and you can see the bread. The bread is only half hidden. It's the scene when Ennis gets Jack's first postcard (and he washes his hands in the sink):






Oh, and the ventilator is prominently seen here. "Look what the wind blew in" - a postcard from Jack .

Thanks Chrissi!    Yep, when I was looking at the screencaps I saw the bread boxes in the two earlier kitchens, but somehow I was (mis)remembering a loaf of bread in a brown bag in one of the earlier kitchens.  Thanks for the reminders about how all of the chain of bread boxes and then the clear bag fit together.


And, yep, I love the vent in the kitchen.  I also love the way the vent with the hot steam kicks up outside just as Ennis pulls into the driveway leading up to the first-postcard scene.

This is giving me the urge to bump the Jack and the Wind thread.

[serious crayons]

A big thanks  to everyone who has participated in the quiz, so far. Interestingly, I don't think anybody here gave answers that exactly matched those I had in mind. Here's what I would have said:

Electric knife = Vibrator


Lureen's blonde hair = Disappointment


Peaches and cereal = Prop snafu


Ear stroke = Learned affection


Transparent bread bag = Revelation


Sour expression = Bitterness


Punching a truck driver = Masculinity


Getting beat up = Compensating


Swearing at your father-in-law = Rebellion


Yelling at your ex-wife = Not a sinner

But again, all answers are acceptable. In fact, as I was doing mine, I can see that I might just as easily have put "swearing at your father-in-law" with "masulinity" and so on. (And to be honest, some of these probably don't quite qualify as symbols.)

[Brown Eyes]

LOL, "not a sinner" was the only option I couldn't or didn't match with one of the offered images.  Although, now that you mention it, I can see why it would work for the "yelling at your ex-wife" scene.

[Meryl]

Interesting quiz!  Thanks, Katherine. 

I thought there was nothing new to me in BBM over-analysis, but the bread boxes never occurred to me.  Thanks for the insight, Chrissi. 

There's another place I remember thinking I saw a loaf of bread:



Symbolism?

[retropian]

Even though this is a Beer commercial. It reminded me of Monroe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI

Ennis I think would be the Miller type here.



how do you get the vid to showup in the message? I haven't been able to get that done.

[Penthesilea]

Even though this is a Beer commercial. It reminded me of Monroe!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI

Ennis I think would be the Miller type here.



how do you get the vid to showup in the message? I haven't been able to get that done.

Above the text box where you write your messages is a row of cowboy smileys. Above them are two rows of icons (for bold, italics, etc.).  In the second row (directly the one above the smileys) the second icon from the left is the youtube icon.
Click it, then you get this (without spaces):

[youtube=425,350 ][ /youtube]


Insert the adress of the youtube video between the square brackets and it's done!

Looks like this (I added spaces into the square brackets, otherwise you couldn't see the code)


[youtube=425,350 ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[ /youtube]


Without spaces:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[/youtube]

[Penthesilea]

I thought there was nothing new to me in BBM over-analysis,

 

but the bread boxes never occurred to me.  Thanks for the insight, Chrissi. 

Welcome. Just for the records: those weren't all my ideas. I was summarizing what has been contributed by several Brokies over the years.

There's another place I remember thinking I saw a loaf of bread:



Symbolism?

Is it a loaf of bread? I thought it's a package of flour and it raises flour dust when it gets broken. But I wouldn't bet on it. Will check later.

[Penthesilea]

There's another place I remember thinking I saw a loaf of bread:

Is it a loaf of bread? I thought it's a package of flour and it raises flour dust when it gets broken. But I wouldn't bet on it. Will check later.

Back. I've checked it frame by frame and I'm pretty sure that it's neither bread nor flour. It's a rectangular shaped cardboard box.

[Penthesilea]

But there is another scene where we see bread (indirectly):

Reunion scene, when Ennis ans Jack come up to say hi to Alma and she's standing there with her purse around her left shoulder, saying howdy to Jack.




We don't see the bread, we see only the wrapping of Wonder Bread, left of Alam's arm.

[retropian]

Above the text box where you write your messages is a row of cowboy smileys. Above them are two rows of icons (for bold, italics, etc.).  In the second row (directly the one above the smileys) the second icon from the left is the youtube icon.
Click it, then you get this (without spaces):

[youtube=425,350 ][ /youtube]


Insert the adress of the youtube video between the square brackets and it's done!

Looks like this (I added spaces into the square brackets, otherwise you couldn't see the code)


[youtube=425,350 ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[ /youtube]


Without spaces:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[/youtube]

Thanks much! I think I did that but it just appeared as a line of code. I must have done it incorrectly, but now I know!

[Brown Eyes]

But there is another scene where we see bread (indirectly):

Reunion scene, when Ennis ans Jack come up to say hi to Alma and she's standing there with her purse around her left shoulder, saying howdy to Jack.




We don't see the bread, we see only the wrapping of Wonder Bread, left of Alam's arm.

Ooooooooo, good eyes Bud!

So what exactly do we think the bread is a symbol of?  Is it simply a symbol of honesty?  Or secrets (in a general sense)?  Or is it a more specific symbol having to do with J & E's relationship in particular?

[tamarack]

The bread in the closed, opaque box was in the kitchen scene at the lonsesome ranch:







If that is a bag of Wonder bread then maybe it reflects Alma wondering what the heck is going on!

This whole bread thing is very interesting, and new to me. I've missed a lot around here! One question. In the picture up above, what is behind the pot on the right side of the picture? It looks like another loaf of bread to me. It's to the right of the jar of red ...(cherries?)

[Front-Ranger]

Thanks for the thought-provoking question, friend Lauren. According to this site:

http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrMilkHoney4.html

bread is first thought of as a symbol for the body. The most famous example to Christians is the Eucharist, or the bread which is consumed in Holy Communion and stands for the body of Christ. A related meaning is that of metamorphosis, since the grain is transformed into bread. The grain is milled, or ground between stones and thus undergoes a transformation which, although violent, renders it flavorful and nutritious and life-giving to humanity.

In the story of Brokeback Mountain, Jack returns from his aerie where he watches the sheep during the day and eats two of Ennis' stone biscuits. In the movie, this symbolism is replaced by the Wonder Bread and, perhaps, the cherry cake and apple pie. There's another reference to bread which occurs way, way at the very end of the movie. It's a delightful and hope-filled message. Ennis stands before the closet and softly says, "Jack, I swear" to the shirts hanging there on a nail. He then closes the door, and we are left with a view of a blue light and a window through which we see the blue sky, the brown earth, and a green field. That field, as I'm sure you know first-hand, friend, is a field of barley, the grain from which bread, or even more likely, beer is made.

[serious crayons]

In the story of Brokeback Mountain, Jack returns from his aerie where he watches the sheep during the day and eats two of Ennis' stone biscuits. In the movie, this symbolism is replaced by the Wonder Bread and, perhaps, the cherry cake and apple pie.

OT, but this makes me wonder anew about that pie. It's possible that at this point in the story Ennis is considering making a change and being with Jack. After all, he has dumped Cassie, and seems to be mulling over something. Well, maybe the pie is suggestive of that. He's ready to "eat the apple" -- that is, to become a sinner, not in the real-world sense but in the sort of reverse Brokie "I haven't had the opportunity" meaning.

Or is that too much of a stretch?

 

[Front-Ranger]

I think you're onto something, friend. Maybe he's pushing that apple pie around the plate, thinking about making a commitment to Jack. It would fit with the tragic irony.

Now, here are the words to the traditional song "John Barleycorn Must Die." This version is from an album by Traffic that is one of the first albums I ever bought. I also saw them perform this song in Wichita, Kansas while I was a college student.

There were three men came out of the west, their fortunes for to try
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn must die
They've plowed, they've sown, they've harrowed him in
Threw clods upon his head
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn was dead
They've let him lie for a very long time, 'til the rains from heaven did fall
And little Sir John sprung up his head and so amazed them all
They've let him stand 'til Midsummer's Day 'til he looked both pale and wan
And little Sir John's grown a long long beard and so become a man
They've hired men with their scythes so sharp to cut him off at the knee
They've rolled him and tied him by the waist serving him most barbarously
They've hired men with their sharp pitchforks who've pricked him to the heart
And the loader he has served him worse than that
For he's bound him to the cart
They've wheeled him around and around a field 'til they came unto a barn

And there they made a solemn oath on poor John Barleycorn
They've hired men with their crabtree sticks to cut him skin from bone
And the miller he has served him worse than that
For he's ground him between two stones

And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl and his brandy in the glass
And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox nor so loudly to blow his horn
And the tinker he can't mend kettle or pots without a little barleycorn

[Marge_Innavera]

OT, but this makes me wonder anew about that pie. It's possible that at this point in the story Ennis is considering making a change and being with Jack. After all, he has dumped Cassie, and seems to be mulling over something. Well, maybe the pie is suggestive of that. He's ready to "eat the apple" -- that is, to become a sinner, not in the real-world sense but in the sort of reverse Brokie "I haven't had the opportunity" meaning.

Or is that too much of a stretch?

 

No, but I'll stretch it a bit further.....   

Apples have traditionally been associated with the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden story.  It's specifically self-knowledge, or being able to not only think but to "think about something."  Maybe Ennis eating apples, although they're buried in pastry, sugar and spices, is a sign that self-knowledge is a little closer to the surface at this point.  And his expressions, and responses to Cassie in that scene, underscore the fact that this is often a painful process.

[Front-Ranger]

Very good point, friend Marge. Also, I would like to add that when Ennis visits the Twist house at the end, Ma Twist is coring apples with a "sharp serrated instrument." The concepts that AP introduces are usually translated to the film by Ang Lee, sometimes in a different form. I think this is an example of that. The act of coring apples, with a metal instrument, ties together nicely the themes woven through the story and helps us see that Ennis achieves resolution in the end in his visit to Jack's childhood home.

[serious crayons]

Excellent, Marge and F-R! 

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I think the electric carving knife is symbolic of the technological advances that Ennis is not a part of and shows that he is being left behind.

[serious crayons]

Bumping this vintage (11 f'in years!) holiday fun.

[Front-Ranger]

Thank you, this was a good one!

[serious crayons]

I feel like Thanksgiving is the official Brokie holiday, even for non-U.S. Brokies who wouldn’t otherwise celebrate it.

[CellarDweller]

I feel like Thanksgiving is the official Brokie holiday, even for non-U.S. Brokies who wouldn’t otherwise celebrate it.

I think you're right!

[Jeff Wrangler]

I feel like Thanksgiving is the official Brokie holiday, even for non-U.S. Brokies who wouldn’t otherwise celebrate it.

Just don't scrape the pattern off the dishes.

[CellarDweller]

LOL!