Author Topic: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz  (Read 6363 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2008, 11:38:40 am »
There's another place I remember thinking I saw a loaf of bread:

Is it a loaf of bread? I thought it's a package of flour and it raises flour dust when it gets broken. But I wouldn't bet on it. Will check later.


Back. I've checked it frame by frame and I'm pretty sure that it's neither bread nor flour. It's a rectangular shaped cardboard box.


Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 11:44:02 am »
But there is another scene where we see bread (indirectly):

Reunion scene, when Ennis ans Jack come up to say hi to Alma and she's standing there with her purse around her left shoulder, saying howdy to Jack.




We don't see the bread, we see only the wrapping of Wonder Bread, left of Alam's arm.

retropian

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2008, 02:32:00 pm »

Above the text box where you write your messages is a row of cowboy smileys. Above them are two rows of icons (for bold, italics, etc.).  In the second row (directly the one above the smileys) the second icon from the left is the youtube icon.
Click it, then you get this (without spaces):

[youtube=425,350 ][ /youtube]


Insert the adress of the youtube video between the square brackets and it's done! :)

Looks like this (I added spaces into the square brackets, otherwise you couldn't see the code)


[youtube=425,350 ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[ /youtube]


Without spaces:
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TpF3K3AVI[/youtube]

Thanks much! I think I did that but it just appeared as a line of code. I must have done it incorrectly, but now I know!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2008, 05:07:25 pm »
But there is another scene where we see bread (indirectly):

Reunion scene, when Ennis ans Jack come up to say hi to Alma and she's standing there with her purse around her left shoulder, saying howdy to Jack.




We don't see the bread, we see only the wrapping of Wonder Bread, left of Alam's arm.


Ooooooooo, good eyes Bud!

So what exactly do we think the bread is a symbol of?  Is it simply a symbol of honesty?  Or secrets (in a general sense)?  Or is it a more specific symbol having to do with J & E's relationship in particular?

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Offline tamarack

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2008, 07:40:50 am »

The bread in the closed, opaque box was in the kitchen scene at the lonsesome ranch:







If that is a bag of Wonder bread then maybe it reflects Alma wondering what the heck is going on!

This whole bread thing is very interesting, and new to me. I've missed a lot around here! One question. In the picture up above, what is behind the pot on the right side of the picture? It looks like another loaf of bread to me. It's to the right of the jar of red ...(cherries?)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2008, 12:57:07 pm »
Thanks for the thought-provoking question, friend Lauren. According to this site:

http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrMilkHoney4.html

bread is first thought of as a symbol for the body. The most famous example to Christians is the Eucharist, or the bread which is consumed in Holy Communion and stands for the body of Christ. A related meaning is that of metamorphosis, since the grain is transformed into bread. The grain is milled, or ground between stones and thus undergoes a transformation which, although violent, renders it flavorful and nutritious and life-giving to humanity.

In the story of Brokeback Mountain, Jack returns from his aerie where he watches the sheep during the day and eats two of Ennis' stone biscuits. In the movie, this symbolism is replaced by the Wonder Bread and, perhaps, the cherry cake and apple pie. There's another reference to bread which occurs way, way at the very end of the movie. It's a delightful and hope-filled message. Ennis stands before the closet and softly says, "Jack, I swear" to the shirts hanging there on a nail. He then closes the door, and we are left with a view of a blue light and a window through which we see the blue sky, the brown earth, and a green field. That field, as I'm sure you know first-hand, friend, is a field of barley, the grain from which bread, or even more likely, beer is made.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2008, 01:37:16 pm »
In the story of Brokeback Mountain, Jack returns from his aerie where he watches the sheep during the day and eats two of Ennis' stone biscuits. In the movie, this symbolism is replaced by the Wonder Bread and, perhaps, the cherry cake and apple pie.

OT, but this makes me wonder anew about that pie. It's possible that at this point in the story Ennis is considering making a change and being with Jack. After all, he has dumped Cassie, and seems to be mulling over something. Well, maybe the pie is suggestive of that. He's ready to "eat the apple" -- that is, to become a sinner, not in the real-world sense but in the sort of reverse Brokie "I haven't had the opportunity" meaning.

Or is that too much of a stretch?

 

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2008, 02:32:33 pm »
I think you're onto something, friend. Maybe he's pushing that apple pie around the plate, thinking about making a commitment to Jack. It would fit with the tragic irony.

Now, here are the words to the traditional song "John Barleycorn Must Die." This version is from an album by Traffic that is one of the first albums I ever bought. I also saw them perform this song in Wichita, Kansas while I was a college student.

There were three men came out of the west, their fortunes for to try
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn must die
They've plowed, they've sown, they've harrowed him in
Threw clods upon his head
And these three men made a solemn vow
John Barleycorn was dead
They've let him lie for a very long time, 'til the rains from heaven did fall
And little Sir John sprung up his head and so amazed them all
They've let him stand 'til Midsummer's Day 'til he looked both pale and wan
And little Sir John's grown a long long beard and so become a man
They've hired men with their scythes so sharp to cut him off at the knee
They've rolled him and tied him by the waist serving him most barbarously
They've hired men with their sharp pitchforks who've pricked him to the heart
And the loader he has served him worse than that
For he's bound him to the cart
They've wheeled him around and around a field 'til they came unto a barn

And there they made a solemn oath on poor John Barleycorn
They've hired men with their crabtree sticks to cut him skin from bone
And the miller he has served him worse than that
For he's ground him between two stones

And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl and his brandy in the glass
And little Sir John and the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox nor so loudly to blow his horn
And the tinker he can't mend kettle or pots without a little barleycorn
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Marge_Innavera

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2008, 10:59:30 am »
OT, but this makes me wonder anew about that pie. It's possible that at this point in the story Ennis is considering making a change and being with Jack. After all, he has dumped Cassie, and seems to be mulling over something. Well, maybe the pie is suggestive of that. He's ready to "eat the apple" -- that is, to become a sinner, not in the real-world sense but in the sort of reverse Brokie "I haven't had the opportunity" meaning.

Or is that too much of a stretch?

 

No, but I'll stretch it a bit further.....    ;D

Apples have traditionally been associated with the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden story.  It's specifically self-knowledge, or being able to not only think but to "think about something."  Maybe Ennis eating apples, although they're buried in pastry, sugar and spices, is a sign that self-knowledge is a little closer to the surface at this point.  And his expressions, and responses to Cassie in that scene, underscore the fact that this is often a painful process.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Open Forum Brokeback Thanksgiving Symbolism Quiz
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2008, 11:33:49 am »
Very good point, friend Marge. Also, I would like to add that when Ennis visits the Twist house at the end, Ma Twist is coring apples with a "sharp serrated instrument." The concepts that AP introduces are usually translated to the film by Ang Lee, sometimes in a different form. I think this is an example of that. The act of coring apples, with a metal instrument, ties together nicely the themes woven through the story and helps us see that Ennis achieves resolution in the end in his visit to Jack's childhood home.
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