Author Topic: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?  (Read 240923 times)

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #190 on: March 23, 2007, 01:35:14 am »
We say "I swear" here in the Midwest all the time. ... It's a very familiar term with Midwesterners, and it can mean a whole host of things, depending on the situation

I just stopped by to say howdy and see how this thread is going... and it's going still!   Thanks for your post David, and welcome to Sock too!   

Since I started this thread, so long ago, I don't think I've heard anyone but David and I who've said that "I swear..." can just mean "I declare!" as in "I swear Jack, life is tough without you." or as in the ways David mentions.   Though there continue to be many ways to hear and feel that line, I do, like David, hear the great regret Ennis is feeling and agree with David's conclusion.  Until he finds their shirts together, I honestly don't think Ennis ever knew how deeply Jack loved him.

I'd also like say something about the ideals "goodness, purity, and honesty" where Ennis and Jack are concerned, or for that matter, where anyone's concerned and I hope I can say this without sounding too "preachy".  I know some people can't stand that, but goodness, purity and honesty are ideals that arise in the human mind and which few human beings are able to live out perfectly.  We all, to some degree or another, embody those ideals; and because they are ideas/ideals imposed upon living imperfect beings, we all embody none of them. 

If that's not too deep or complex a conclusion to make here, I hope it will at least add a little light to the overall discussion and maybe even advance it some too.

Yours truly,
Rayn

PS: I think I'll watch the movie again this weekend.  I'm not "obsessed" with it anymore like after I first saw it, thank goodness, but I get a bit more out of it every time I see it and I never cease to enjoy it.   Like all great art, it just hasn't grown old for me.   

I will have to do one thing first though....  buy a box of kleenex!  LOL   :laugh:     It always "gets me good" no matter how many times I've seen it.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 01:50:35 am by Rayn »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #191 on: March 23, 2007, 01:49:29 am »
I just stopped by to say howdy and see how this thread is going... and it's going still!   Thanks for your post David, and welcome to Sock too!   

Hey Bud!  Nice to see you.  Yup, this thread is certainly a classic.  It's one of those topics that doesn't get old and can be analyzed at great length (clearly)!

Quote
Until he finds their shirts together, I honestly don't think Ennis ever knew how deeply Jack loved him.

Well, I believe Ennis knew how deeply Jack loved him while Jack was still alive.  But, I wonder if Ennis realized how long Jack had been so deeply in love.  The shirts might have surprised Ennis in making him realize that Jack was already so deeply in love during the Brokeback summer.  Does Ennis's discovery of the shirts make him realize that he was deeply in love with Jack already by the end of the Brokeback summer too?  He seems aware of the intensity of his emotions towards Jack pretty early (especially story-Ennis... since he tells Jack *why* he had the dry heaves after Jack left that summer). 
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #192 on: March 23, 2007, 02:16:41 am »
Hey Bud!  Nice to see you.  Yup, this thread is certainly a classic.  It's one of those topics that doesn't get old and can be analyzed at great length (clearly)!

I wonder if Ennis realized how long Jack had been so deeply in love.  The shirts might have surprised Ennis in making him realize that Jack was already so deeply in love during the Brokeback summer.  Does Ennis's discovery of the shirts make him realize that he was deeply in love with Jack already by the end of the Brokeback summer too?  He seems aware of the intensity of his emotions towards Jack pretty early (especially story-Ennis... since he tells Jack *why* he had the dry heaves after Jack left that summer). 

Yes, you're right.  It is however pretty clear, in terms of awareness, that Ennis is slower than Jack.  Perhaps finding their shirts does make him aware, deeply aware, that he was in love with Jack from the git-go. 

Now I know it's not reasonable, but I can't help but think of Ennis in terms of how I myself would have responded to Jack if I met a guy like Jack one summer in an alpine setting.....   :laugh:   

Silly, ain't I?!   

Ennis was/is not a 21st century man with all the awareness of post liberation history and experience to help him.  Ennis and Jack were men of their times and so much of those times were full of violence, fear and repression.   Those were the making of much sadness, but the wonder of the story is the Power of Love-- "A Force of Nature"  eh?!  And the lengths we go to keep it alive!   

Good to see you too, atz75 !   :)

Rayn
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 02:20:14 am by Rayn »

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #193 on: April 10, 2007, 09:45:02 pm »
"Jack, I swear..."

What do you think Ennis meant by that?

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #194 on: April 10, 2007, 09:51:13 pm »
Interesting in many, many ways!!

Could it be that Ennis says, in thinking about Jack, therefore to Jack this in a way:


He (Ennis) is now brave!! ??  So, I (Ennis) will now be brave too like you were being an open person Jack!! ??

Jack I swear, said by Ennis, is powerful in unknown ways!! ??

Your comments from you all, would be great!!

Hugs!!

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #195 on: April 11, 2007, 12:50:54 am »
Artiste,

    I have thought too that Ennis could mean, "Jack, I swear I'll live a different, more open life now because of you."  And there is even an indication of this when Ennis makes a decision to be at his daughter's wedding instead of isolating like he often does to protect himself from life's pain and trouble.

    I'm one who wants to believe Ennis gets better, lives more openly, moves to Denver or some other larger western city, meets someone and finds a close friendship with another person.   But I do think it would take him time to get used to Jack's not being there for him.  I don't think he could ever let the memory of Jack go, but I do think he could move on and live a better life, in time.   But all this is just a wish made of a fantasy, not just for Ennis, but for everyone.

Life goes on with or without us, huh?
Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #196 on: April 11, 2007, 09:28:30 am »
Jack I swear, said by Ennis, is powerful in unknown ways!! ??
Artiste, you've honed in on an essential element of this key scene. The line would lose a considerable amount of its power were it to explicitly include any or all of the speculations that others like we Brokies have added to it. The line is haunting in part because it is open-ended...allowing us to finish the story in our own lives and hearts as Ms. Proulx intended.

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #197 on: April 11, 2007, 11:15:03 am »
Thanks Ryan!

I do like your comment. And find that that could be so.

Last night in bed, an idea about that came to me, but I can not remember it now.
Maybe, it will come back... concerning Jack' I swear, as said by Ennis.

Maybe you know, Ryan, that I have lived that situation of Ennis, because I have lost my partner/lover to, I figure, a killer of gays. And nearly everyday I think about my pal and still consider him to be alive in some ways as in my mind and heart!! It is hard I state, and I feel that he communicates with me... somehow; even think, that we (mother and I) had (real) sign of his communications many days after his death!! Anyway, life does go on as you say... and even if my buddy was Wayne (like he was Jack), he and I had difficulties like in the BBM movie. It remains that why we live and why we do past away, is a question even in Annie's story!! ??


As you say: Life goes on with or without us, huh?
That is like the BBM  movie, I guess??

May I note that some men, only loves another man, and will not find another!! I have heard of some men never seeking to find another lover (woman or man) after being refused once, or after the death of the other person.
That I wonder why? Do you?

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #198 on: April 11, 2007, 11:18:52 am »
Thanks moremojo!

You say this:
Artiste, you've honed in on an essential element of this key scene. The line would lose a considerable amount of its power were it to explicitly include any or all of the speculations that others like we Brokies have added to it. The line is haunting in part because it is open-ended...allowing us to finish the story in our own lives and hearts as Ms. Proulx intended.
...

May I say that I agree with you. And that it is great that we can think in many ways about it.
And I still find ways of thought never known yet! That is great!

Annie does a wonderful thing, story!! Did she write those words in her story: Jack, I swear...??

Hugs!

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #199 on: April 11, 2007, 11:39:45 am »
May I note that some men, only loves another man, and will not find another!! I have heard of some men never seeking to find another lover (woman or man) after being refused once, or after the death of the other person.
That I wonder why? Do you?

I guess some people feel they cannot love again once they have loved "a forever love".   I respect that, but I am not like that.  I think most people need love, to give it and to receive it while we live and so, I have been lucky enough to have loved more than once, have had three real loves and I'm open to meeting someone else, but there hasn't been anyone in a long time who I've fallen for.  I guess when you've had "the best" you get picky about the rest!  LOL 

But honestly, each man and woman is different and we all have our own ways of loving. We are all unique whether with someone as a couple or single