Life and this movie are messy

[Front-Ranger]

This is all about sweat, tears, blood, rain, snow, hail, and runny noses. That's right, this is one messy movie. I'd like to start by talking about the early years of Ennis's marriage, when the bedroom and adjoining nursery were filled with the smells of milk and baby shit and Jenny had a runny nose. Jenny also had an asthmatic wheeze. Hmmm, runny watery nose and windy breath...could Jenny be reminding Ennis of Jack? It's true he tugged on her ear and called her an angel one time, and then she seemed to disappear, altho Alma Jr. mentioned that she would be singing at the wedding. And why was she named Jenny instead of Francine as in the story? Is it because Jenny starts with a J, like Jack? Let's untangle some of these messy parts of the story together!

[Jeff Wrangler]

And why was she named Jenny instead of Francine as in the story? Is it because Jenny starts with a J, like Jack?

Well, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but it is the first explanation I've seen anyone come up with for the otherwise apparently pointless name change.

 

[Brown Eyes]

Yeah, that name change is a puzzler.  It's interesting how little we know about Jenny compared to Alma Jr. 

[Luvlylittlewing]

I agree with you - the movie is messy and gritty.  Annie P.  describes how Jack and Ennis' motel room smelled after they made love.  Damn!  And all the spitting that goes on.  The tent up on Brokeback smelled like cat piss, and certainly smelled worse after the boys got busy in it.  Yes, a messy movie.  This unpleasantness only adds to the authentic feel of the movie in my mind.  God, I love this movie, mess and all

[Front-Ranger]

Yes, but what do you suppose the spitting is all about? How does it advance the story? Whenever anybody spits it is very jarring but maybe I am making too much of it.

[serious crayons]

Yes, but what do you suppose the spitting is all about? How does it advance the story? Whenever anybody spits it is very jarring but maybe I am making too much of it.

Hi F-R, I've seen posts analyzing the spitting. I can't remember exactly what they say beyond the fact that spit expresses contempt or dismissal for the other person or whatever has just been said. There may be more to it than that. But I don't think you're making too much of it, in any case!

[Sheriff Roland]

I agree that a lot has been offered as explanation for the spitting - but what about the most simple explanation of all: that it provides us with a realistic view of the times & place.

First, most of the spitting occures outdoors. You telling me that even in today's world you don't occasionally see people spitting on the sidewalk? Well now imagine a world removed some 25 years (the last part of the movie) where smoking was more prevalent than it is today - plus we're dealing with the great outdoors - not really city and pavement surroundings. What's a guy suppose to do with all that mucus accumulating in his throat and mouth? And then there's the earlier generation - John Twist. I'm ten years younger than Ennis would be today, yet, when I was younger (early 1960's) there still was a functional spitoon in the barber's shop where I would get my hair cut, in northern Ontario (Canada). What I'm saying is that these people in their time & place would think nothing of spitting outdoors, and even John Twist, from a earlier generation would not think much about spitting in his own cup.

In short - the spitting is probably nothing more than a respect of the customs that we are no longer use to. the habit may seem jarring as part of our movie going experience but, I think it just represent the realities of the times.

[Luvlylittlewing]

The spitting does represent disgust.  I don't think anything in this movie is arbritrary.  Three instances I can think of:

1. Ennis spitting during the "fight scene." Here Ennis is showing his displeasure that Jack visited Mexico
2.  Jack spitting in Ennis' path as they bring the sheep down from the Mountain.  Jack was understandably angry that Ennis struck him.
3. Old Man Twist spitting into a cup when he discusses Jack bringing someone else up to lick the ranch into shape.

There are other instances, I'm sure, but I can't think of them right now.  I do believe all the spitting serves a purpose.  I read a thread awhile ago with a lot of analysis of what the spitting signifies, but I can't remember everything that was said.

[Sheriff Roland]

I do not deny that there have been meanings assigned to all that spitting, and I will admit that some of it could have been strategically placed to show "disgust",  but my post still stands for what it wished to convey - that not all spitting need to imply special meaning that the viewer has to interpret. Spitting was as normal a part of everyday life as eating, sleeping and working. I may not convince anyone of my view on this, but sometimes, I feel, we over-analyse things and I think that sometimes a spit is just a natural part of everyday life of those times.

[nakymaton]

Roland, I'm right there with you.

For me, the movie works first on a very intuitive emotional level. Sometimes people point out symbolism to me that adds to the sense I already had of a scene. But sometimes, the symbols that are apparent to another person conflict with what I saw going on. Maybe that means I'm wrong about what I feel about various scenes. I dunno. I prefer to go for the emotional resonance first.

I do know that I spit a lot when I'm working (or exercising) hard outdoors, especially when it's dry out or when my sinuses are acting up or when my mouth is full of dust.