BBM and Lonesome Dove

[Brown Eyes]

I just ordered my copy of Lonesome Dove. It was a bargain, only 8 $!

I'm looking forward to reading.

Heya Fabienne!  Has your copy come yet?  I'll probably finish reading mine this weekend!

[Monika]

Good thread!

I remember watching the mini-series years ago and really loved it. The friendship between the two main characters was different from anything I previously had seen in the western genre. I´d like to read the book too at some point.

[belbbmfan]

Heya Fabienne!  Has your copy come yet?  I'll probably finish reading mine this weekend!

Hey Amanda, yes it has. And I have to say I didn't know it was going to be 945 pages!  I haven't started reading it. I feel a bit guilty about starting a new book before I've finished the one I'm currently reading ('Atonement' by Ian McEwan). But I might dive in anyway. It's your description of this book being a page turner that intrigues me. I love getting all caught up in a story, Atonement, though also very good, isn't that sort of book.

[Front-Ranger]

I am enjoying Lonesome Dove more and more. Now that Jake Spoon has arrived on the scene, it's getting really interesting!

[Brown Eyes]

Hey Amanda, yes it has. And I have to say I didn't know it was going to be 945 pages!  I haven't started reading it. I feel a bit guilty about starting a new book before I've finished the one I'm currently reading ('Atonement' by Ian McEwan). But I might dive in anyway. It's your description of this book being a page turner that intrigues me. I love getting all caught up in a story, Atonement, though also very good, isn't that sort of book.

I am enjoying Lonesome Dove more and more. Now that Jake Spoon has arrived on the scene, it's getting really interesting!

 
Yep, the drama comes in waves... and sometimes the drama gets surprisingly intense.

I'm at a phase towards the end now where it's almost impossible to put it down.  I was up until 1:00 am (on a work night!) trying to find a place to put it down for the night.

So, I was intimidated by the long length of it at first too... I'd put if off for so long because of the length... but it really does go fast once you get further into the book.

[fritzkep]

Saw the miniseries first back when it premiered in 1989, then when I visited a friend in Oregon in 1993 he gave me a copy of the book, which I read avidly as soon as I got back home. Wonderful film, fantastic book! Completely enjoyed them both.

As a result of the series and book, I visited the site of the Battle of Adobe Walls in the Texas panhandle back in 2003. The series references the second battle, and Gus shooting an attacker at long range is based on an incident during this battle.

Cf. Billy Dixon in this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Adobe_Walls

[Brown Eyes]

Yeehaw!!!  I'm here to report that I finished reading Lonesome Dove this afternoon!  And, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing.

Throughout the book I noticed so many little details that remind me of BBM that I pretty much stopped keeping track.  Some things reminded me of the movie/screenplay and other things reminded me of the story more than the movie.  I don't know what all of Proulx's literary sources of inspiration were, I'm sure there were many, many things that she looked to when writing BBM, but I wouldn't be surprised if LD was amongst them.  Phrases like "let be" and "I swear..." appear more than once in LD and the "I swear..." takes on a pretty inportant significance in LD, though maybe not as much as in BBM (or at least not as highlighted as in BBM).  And, there are funny specific phrases like "the pelts be damned" in LD (a quick reference made in a conversation about hunting beavers) that of course remind immediately of BBM. 

And, then there are major themes that seems so important in both LD and BBM (possible minor **spoilers** ahead).  It's very striking to me that Call starts dreaming about Gus after he dies, and even seems to hallucinate about him a bit while awake.  The whole concept of returning the remains of a partner/loved-one's to a significant place seems to be another common theme.  The intensity of the relationship between Call and Gus and an awareness of that intensity is much more foregrounded at the end.  In the conversation between Clara and Call, I was really struck by her statement that one of the many reasons she never married Gus was because she thought she'd always be in competition for Gus with Call.  Specifically, she says to Call, "Another reason I didn't marry him was because I didn't want to fight you for him every day of my life."  And, in very general terms, I still think the theme of long travel from south to north and north to south is interesting in both BBM and LD.  The contrast of how that travel is achieved and what it means in each story seems pretty significant.

I thought the increased pace of the writing towards the end of LD was kind of interesting.  It almost felt like McMurtry might have really been working to wrap things up quickly, compared to other passages through the center of the novel that seemed much more leisurely.

Someday I'll read the other books in the series.  I'm particularly curious to read about the early days of the partnership between Gus and Call.  Gus is such a great character, it was very sad to see him die in LD.

[mariez]

Yeehaw!!!  I'm here to report that I finished reading Lonesome Dove this afternoon!  And, I thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing.

Throughout the book I noticed so many little details that remind me of BBM that I pretty much stopped keeping track.  Some things reminded me of the movie/screenplay and other things reminded me of the story more than the movie.  I don't know what all of Proulx's literary sources of inspiration were, I'm sure there were many, many things that she looked to when writing BBM, but I wouldn't be surprised if LD was amongst them.  Phrases like "let be" and "I swear..." appear more than once in LD and the "I swear..." takes on a pretty inportant significance in LD, though maybe not as much as in BBM (or at least not as highlighted as in BBM).  And, there are funny specific phrases like "the pelts be damned" in LD (a quick reference made in a conversation about hunting beavers) that of course remind immediately of BBM. 

And, then there are major themes that seems so important in both LD and BBM (possible minor **spoilers** ahead).  It's very striking to me that Call starts dreaming about Gus after he dies, and even seems to hallucinate about him a bit while awake.  The whole concept of returning the remains of a partner/loved-one's to a significant place seems to be another common theme.  The intensity of the relationship between Call and Gus and an awareness of that intensity is much more foregrounded at the end.  In the conversation between Clara and Call, I was really struck by her statement that one of the many reasons she never married Gus was because she thought she'd always be in competition for Gus with Call.  Specifically, she says to Call, "Another reason I didn't marry him was because I didn't want to fight you for him every day of my life."  And, in very general terms, I still think the theme of long travel from south to north and north to south is interesting in both BBM and LD.  The contrast of how that travel is achieved and what it means in each story seems pretty significant.

I thought the increased pace of the writing towards the end of LD was kind of interesting.  It almost felt like McMurtry might have really been working to wrap things up quickly, compared to other passages through the center of the novel that seemed much more leisurely.

Someday I'll read the other books in the series.  I'm particularly curious to read about the early days of the partnership between Gus and Call.  Gus is such a great character, it was very sad to see him die in LD.

Wow.  What an awesome summation.  You really hit upon the key points.  I do think that both McMurtry and Proulx have a true understanding of "the West" and that a lot of the similiarities in the phrasing, etc., spring from that. 

SPOILERS







To me, Call and Gus (like Jack and Ennis) are true soulmates - and I don't think two people have to have a romantic or sexual relationship to achieve that.  I think Clara was right - any third person wanting a real piece of Gus or Call's heart would have been an intrusion.  If you get a chance to see the mini-series, you'll see that Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones do an amazing job of conveying this throughout (especially in Gus's deathbed scene  ). 

I've heard other people mention the quicker pace near the end.  I'm not sure if McMurtry was trying to wrap things up, or if he was trying to convey the sense of urgency ("time flying" maybe?) .

Augustus McCrae (along with Ennis del Mar) is definitely one of my favorite literary characters of all time.  Thanks again for starting this thread!   

Marie

[Brown Eyes]

SPOILERS

I've heard other people mention the quicker pace near the end.  I'm not sure if McMurtry was trying to wrap things up, or if he was trying to convey the sense of urgency ("time flying" maybe?) .

Thanks Marie!   I can see good arguments for both arguments about the pace at the end.  Since McMurtry spent hundreds of pages describing the drive north, maybe he just didn't feel the need to re-iterate some of the details and descriptions of Call's return to Texas, which happens in less than a hundred pages.  And, it seems to me that if he spent the same amount of time describing the trip south, he'd have had to split the book into two volumes.  From a narrative point of view, I agree that the increased pace conveys the sense of urgency... and also maybe the trip south was literally a bit faster since Call was traveling on his own and not worrying about a cumbersome, huge herd of cattle and horses. 

I'm glad we found out about what happened to Blue Duck.  At a certain point during the book I'd come to expect that he would just remain an unsolved mystery.  The two characters who I remain the most curious about are Lorena and Newt. I love Lorena and really hope that Gus's death doesn't ruin her.  Throughout her relationship with him I really wondered if she was really in love with him in a conventional sense, or rather, whether she had sort of imprinted on him or become obsessed with him out of a sense of self-preservation and survival (since he was the one who rescued her).  I love that Lorena found a home with Clara and I think the fact that Betsy bonded so much with her is adorable.  I think Lorena is such a tragic character... the fact that she can't even read Gus's note due to her illiteracy is so sad.  And, the little passage earlier in the book where McMurtry describes her memories of being a child with her loving grandmother just makes my heart bleed... thinking about how difficult her life ended up being as an adult.  And, I think Newt is also a great character... I'd be very curious to hear more about how he handles his new responsibilities in Montana.

Augustus McCrae (along with Ennis del Mar) is definitely one of my favorite literary characters of all time. 

Yes, I of course, would agree that they're both brilliant literary characters.  In LD, I find Gus so much more interesting, or likable, than Call (but I do like Call too... just not in the same way).  But in terms of types of characters... Call seems like a 19th century version of Ennis... a loaner, brooding, compelled all the time by a sense of duty and work, surpressing emotions, denying his love for Maggie, unable to deal with his emotions about Newt, etc.  And, as the gregarious, talkative, sometimes-goofy character, I see Gus as the Jack-type character.  Also the fact that Gus is the one who dies and leaves a very specific request about what to do with his remains in relation to a sentimental place... which becomes a task for Call... provides an interesting parallel between Jack and Ennis too, IMO.

[Brown Eyes]

Heya are folks still making progress on reading Lonesome Dove?  I'd be really curious to hear your reactions and impressions of it!