Situation with BBM's Film Editor

[whiteoutofthemoon]

Hey Brokies --  just wanted to know if any of you brokie-experts out there know of the situation around this:   my understanding is that the original film Editor for this film, Geraldine Peroni, who is very experienced and respected, unfortunately and sadly passed away during the production (apparantly of suicide).  The film was then taken over by a new editor.   

I have not heard anything about this in the media, but it seems to me that would be one possible reason why we see a number of unusual editing errors in the movie....that is, ones that could be caught by a good viewer and an astute film editor.   Not the the new editor wasn't good, but it must have been difficult for him to come on late in the game and try to make this perfectly.   

This then leads to a spiral of unfortunate events:    crisis in the editing dept,  modest editing job, no siginficant recognition by the Editing branch of the Academy.    Would they have wanted to nominate an editor posthumously for not finishing the job?  Could they nominate someone who took over the film and did a so-so job?  who knows.   Seems to me that had Peroni lived (may she R.I.P.), she would have been respected enough to not only do a great job, but also be a shoe-in for the Best Editing award.   

And of course, Oscar for Best Editing might have led to Best Picture, as they say.....very few movies have won Best Pic that did not win Best Editing.   Perhaps, in the whole scheme of things, this is what screwed BBM from getting Best Pic?

However, I have my own suspicions about why it lost Best Pic, but that is an entirely different frustrating argument altogether, and we don't want to open that nasty can of worms, do we?   (but let me know if you do!)

[Front-Ranger]

Your scenario has a lot of validity. The editing of the movie can be maddening because it is so ruthless. In several places it seems like the scenes are cut before the action is complete. I'm thinking of the drive-in movie scene, but there are several others. (TS1, TS2, TS3...) I used to think this was Ang Lee's idea, but could it be due to a new editor coming in without a strong vision of the movie and its intended flow?

[serious crayons]

Hmm ... Interesting issue. I also assume the way those scenes are cut is Ang's idea. In many cases, I think it works well -- you just barely catch something going on before (snip!) it cuts away. And it seems intentional because of all the other stuff you barely see -- the hand-holding, the muttered words, etc. (see "barely discernible details" thread).

Anyway, I'm going to stick with my original concept. At least, it will be in front of Ang's house I will choose to picket to protest the shortness of the tent scenes.

[opinionista]

Your scenario has a lot of validity. The editing of the movie can be maddening because it is so ruthless. In several places it seems like the scenes are cut before the action is complete. I'm thinking of the drive-in movie scene, but there are several others. (TS1, TS2, TS3...) I used to think this was Ang Lee's idea, but could it be due to a new editor coming in without a strong vision of the movie and its intended flow?

A friend of mine is a film editor. He usually works for small independent movies, but lately has had the opportunity to work for bigger movie productions. According to him the editor does not cut the film all by himself. He is not allowed to make decisions. The director is 99% of the time sitting at his side, telling him what to cut and where. If the director is absent for any reason, instructions are left for the editor and the director has to see and approve whatever was cut during his absence. That's what he told me. I don't know now Ang Lee works. I suspect the goofs on BBM have more to do with lack of budget than anything else. Sometimes they make mistakes during filmmalking that are noticed in the cutting room. If they have the money to reshoot they do it, if not they try to fix it with the editing.

[Mero]

Hi,
I'm new to this board and decided to make my first contribution on this thread, simply because I think I can add my two cents to this particular discussion.
I remember Ang Lee making an interesting comparison during an interview: He compared the shooting of the movie to buying groceries, while the actual "cooking" is done in the editing room, where out of theses materials the actual film is made. (A very Ang Lee-ish comparison, btw, as he loves to cook in real live and cooking and eating play an important role in his films - cf. "Eat, Drink, Man, Woman").
So, I guess, the director had definitly a great say in the editing.

[serious crayons]

That's interesting, Mero, and welcome to BetterMost!

You know when you're cooking, all those parts you throw into the garbage disposal or compost bin -- the stems and peels and pits and carrot greens and ends of the onions and stuff like that? I wish after Ang was done cooking, he would have given those to me!

[whiteoutofthemoon]

A friend of mine is a film editor. He usually works for small independent movies, but lately has had the opportunity to work for bigger movie productions. According to him the editor does not cut the film all by himself. He is not allowed to make decisions. The director is 99% of the time sitting at his side, telling him what to cut and where. If the director is absent for any reason, instructions are left for the editor and the director has to see and approve whatever was cut during his absence. That's what he told me. I don't know now Ang Lee works. I suspect the goofs on BBM have more to do with lack of budget than anything else. Sometimes they make mistakes during filmmalking that are noticed in the cutting room. If they have the money to reshoot they do it, if not they try to fix it with the editing.

I guess that would make sense, since the Director has the final say and the content is his/her responsibility.  If that were the case, though, then why in the world do they give an Oscar to "Best Editor", when it seems from this description that all they function as is the person who operates the cutting room machine while the Director tells them what to cut/not-cut?   And furthermore, wouldn't the award for Best Editor be synonymous with Best Director, and hence whoever wins best director should logically be the same film as for Best Editor?  Boggles the mind.....     the Oscars suck. 

[opinionista]

I guess that would make sense, since the Director has the final say and the content is his/her responsibility.  If that were the case, though, then why in the world do they give an Oscar to "Best Editor", when it seems from this description that all they function as is the person who operates the cutting room machine while the Director tells them what to cut/not-cut?   And furthermore, wouldn't the award for Best Editor be synonymous with Best Director, and hence whoever wins best director should logically be the same film as for Best Editor?  Boggles the mind.....     the Oscars suck. 

I don't know the technicalities, but the director has a lot of saying during the editing of the movie. However, it doesn't mean the editor's job has no merit in the filmmaking. It's a job, just like acting is a job. Actors cannot do what they like, they have to follow director's instructions, just like the editor. There are technical stuff only the editor knows how to do, but he follows director's instructions. It's a collaborative work I guess.

[Brown Eyes]

So, I finally received my copy of the Story to Screenplay book in the mail from poky Amazon today.  I don't even want to talk about how long I had to wait for it.

Anyway, as those of you with the book know, the entire end credit sequence is printed out at the back of the book.  And, it broke my heart to see the very last credit line (before all the logos, etc.) says "In Loving Memory of Geraldine Peroni."  Wow.  That really is sad.  It adds even a little more weight to this movie for me.  It's hard to think of someone committing suicide (is this really true??) in the middle of editing such a beautiful movie... and one that means so much to me. 
 


ps. The Oscars have been steadily losing credibility for me too... BBM's loss was certainly the last straw for me.  I take comfort in the fact that Citizen Kane didn't win best picture either.  But, that Brokeback did win 71 major film awards (when you add in the Oscars) with 51 additional nominations... is just astounding.  Has any other film ever won that many awards/ nominations?   Amazing.