Hi!
I’m the original poster of what Jeff Wrangler quoted.
You said:
Everyone who comes here is entitled to his or her own opinion about Brokeback Mountain--and also, I submit, about what is legitimate source material for formulating an understanding of Brokeback Mountain.
And
Individuals such as the poster whom I've quoted above have every right to focus entirely on the film and not take other Brokeback materials, such as Annie Proulx's original story, into consideration. I submit, however, that those of us who feel differently have as much right to our opinion that the story, or earlier drafts of the screenplay, or interviews with or essays by members of the film's creative team, are legitimate sources to take into consideration in seeking insights for formulating one's interpretations.
OK. So I am entitled to my opinion and I have a right to focus entirely on the film…
…and please stop the lectures.
…but I should not post my opinion?
At what point did my expressed opinion become a “lecture?"
I posted my opinion at a point in a thread where my opinion on the subject was germane – in response to a poster who had referenced the screenplay. Did I miss the thread where we’re all supposed to post on this subject exclusive of all other places?
“lectures”
What about my expression of my opinion turns it into a “lecture?”
Let’s look at what I said:
OK – please indulge my little rant… --- is this not self-deprecating? Or conciliatory? Or apologetic? Also, did I not say “Sorry for that” as the start of my very next paragraph? And, when you read my other posts in that thread, do you not see that I respect others’ opinions? If you see disrespect from me to others’ opinions, please quote them here and I’ll eat my words. Promise.
I hate going to extraneous things that just aren’t “Brokeback Mountain.” --- is this not my opinion? Did I say I hate it when *you* go to… ?
To me, BBM is the film as we see it with our eyes and hear it with our ears. --- “To me, …” --- is this not my opinion? But maybe I later say that I think this opinion should be imposed on others? Let’s continue and we’ll look for it…
The short story, the screenplay, the script, comments from Proulx, Lee, the actors… it’s all just speculation and interpretation. The film does not follow the short story, the screenplay, or the script in every way, and in many instances, not in key ways. Facts were changed and cannot be translated from any one to any one of the others. Same with motivations – except for “well, possibly what’s going on here…” But that’s no different than any other interpretation any one else would come up with. The people involved have all said many things about BBM. Too often, they contradict each other and they contradict themselves. Too often, they change their story over time. And one of the biggest offenders in this regard is Proulx. Yes, she’s the author of the short story, but she’s not the author of the film. Even Lee’s intentions for what he wanted to do with the film and get across through the film did not all come to pass. The film is as we see and hear it. It’s not fair to try and change what we see and hear by going to extraneous sources.Are not all of these statements my opinions? And, although I did not link to supporting evidence for each statement, are they not *almost* all statements for which I could go link to supporting evidence and then someone else could come along and disagree?
Did I say that this view should be imposed on others?
I'm sure those who wish to focus solely on the film want their views respected. I only request that, in turn, they respect the views of those who differ from them,…
How does what you quoted of mine show that I do not respect the views of those who differ?
We are all entitled to our views,
But we’re not entitled to post them? And I would even add, “respectfully.”
Rants such as the one quoted above are not constructive. They are not conducive to conversation or to community.
I must disagree. It was constructive in that it let the other people who read and post to that thread know what my opinions are on the subject. It was conducive to conversation because it opened a new line of discussion that anyone could respond to and then I could respond, back and forth. In fact, didn’t it actually start this very thread up? And here we are, going back and forth, discussing – community. Not to mention, it sparked your saying this:
And, incidentally, I submit that since Brokeback Mountain was not made from an original screenplay created entirely by Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana, but was in fact adapted from Annie Proulx's story, then the original story is hardly "extraneous material."
Unfortunately, it seems we’re discussing an opinion that you seem to be saying you would rather I not have the right to post.
And to put it bluntly, in my opinion, they are rude and disrespectful.
Please elaborate. I have shown above that they are simply my opinions, and that I was self-deprecating and apologetic. Is it because I called it a “rant?’ Is it because I didn’t say “Oh, oh… here’s where I get my butt kicked…” as I have said any of a number of times in other posts?
Which is more “rude” and “disrespectful”:
--- to post opinions that, in their very words, are self-deprecating and apologetic; and, are constructive and conducive to conversation and community
--or--
--- to post a quote from someone else in an entirely new thread instead of responding in the original thread (or sending a PM) and calling it “rude” and “disrespectful” without elaborating and saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and has a right to focus on the film in his or her own way… but as far as being able to post it… not *this* one.
I think this is a valid question.
Can we please just agree to disagree, treat each other with respect and courtesy, and have an end to the rants?
Perhaps you should take the first step in this direction. I have always remained on this path.
You told me why you came to this forum, so I’ll tell you why I came to this forum. I started reading threads and posts over here for about a week before I joined. I joined because I liked what I saw. I liked the insight. I really liked the thoughtfulness that people put into their posts. I liked the give and take. I liked the fact that everyone posted in a different way with a different style – some people would just drop a comment in here or there, others would state their opinions at length and with ownership – and everything in between. What I liked most of all is that everyone seemed to go along with this and accept each person for who they were and how they posted and for what they had to say.
I intended nothing more in my *self-described* rant than to express my opinion. I intended no disrespect. Looking objectively at what I wrote, I believe I accomplished both goals.
If you read through the entire thread you will see that one poster was the victim of a vicious attack in a PM – the poster was accused of being rude and arrogant and having an attitude. The poster has consistently displayed throughout all of her posts over time that this was a wholly unwarranted attack. I have been the recipient of a similar PM from the same person. And now this thread of yours. To be honest, I haven’t gotten to know many people here. There seems to be a core group who post in the threads I’m interested in. You are one of those people. I have always liked your posts and found them insightful – even though you and I have agreed and disagreed on various points. But now, after those two PM attacks and this thread, I must admit I’m getting disillusioned about why I came here. Maybe I didn’t do my homework very well.
I hope the poster feels better after having vented.
Nope. Not me. And you?
