Author Topic: Annie Proulx's still pissed...  (Read 79910 times)

Offline twistedude

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2009, 12:50:23 am »
anybody posting here who thinks they have never been a fan of Annie Proulx is A blasted idiot!

There are those (me)who saw the movie many, many times, but never cried till they heard the story read aloud.

By the way, "Tits Up in a Ditch" is a great story, too.

And, technically, we could all be sued--those of us who have written fanfiction--because as soon as you set pen to paper (or type a key) what you say is copyrighted.

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2009, 01:19:29 am »
Well, I have never been an admirer of Annie Proulx.........in fact I would never have ever heard of her if it wasn't for BBM.

I agree that she has written one of the most poignant stories ever written, which in turn was transformed into one of the most fascinating and mind renching films ever produced.

She underestimates the feelings and intelligence of the people who are still mesmerised by her story. She underestimates people have changed their lives because of it.

Sure.....she wrote the words of BBM, but she did not write the words of all the stories of the people affected by it.

I wonder if she has ever looked past her own ego or her own publicity, to really take a look at what that story has done for people.

Whether she likes it or not, Jack and Ennis have become real people to some of us. Its a bit like Santa Clause, it makes us feel good to believe in them.

Whether she likes it or not, she is always going to be questioned and asked about BBM.

Whether she likes it or not, she is always going to be known more for BBM than any other book she writes.



I have no doubt she must get sick of fan fiction being sent to her, but she must have a rubbish bin,she should use it.
Expressing her views about it publicly will do nothing for her career or her popularity.

Her interview is initially about the shit that is sent to her, but it also seems to be condemning all of us who have taken the characters into our hearts.

She says she "owns those characters".....I think she lost that right of ownership when she gave it to Ang Lee, McMurtry,Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal who put the face and emotions to the characters.

To say that "people think it is about two cowboys", also shows her lack of knowledge of those of us who obsess over the movie, or even write fan fiction about the story.....I am sure we are all fully aware of what the story is about.

Somebody should tell her not to bite the hand that feeds her, and if she is gonna do it, do it privately.

She doesn't enjoy the attention BBM the film has received that's for sure. I wonder if it is in part because BBM has eclipsed the rest of her oeuvre. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she receives voluminous amounts of fan mail, questions and fan-fic's in regards to BBM, but comparatively precious little for the rest of her works. I think sometimes an artist creates something, the cultural impact of which, the artist could not have anticipated. She created a Classical Tragedy in modern form at the right time. As a Tragedy, it produced the experience of Catharsis, which for those who have never gone through it, is bewildering. BBM became a cultural phenomenon which no one could have foreseen. She has moved on emotionally from the story and characters, but so many others have not, and that must get pretty tiresome for her.

Offline Katie77

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2009, 03:51:30 am »
Just think how we would feel if Heath or Jake had said something similar about BBM.

That interview was more than about copyright, and Im sure if she could take legal action against fan fic writers, she would have done it by now.

The movie, in my opinion was a long way off the original story, with things added and things changed, and really, lets face it, the movie is far far bigger than her written story......we didn't see forums started like this one, about the story in the paper, how many of us would be Brokies because of the story alone? How many of us, only bought the book, because of the movie?

I think Annie Proloux has a higher opinion of herself than a lot of others do.

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Offline Monika

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2009, 04:20:32 am »


The movie, in my opinion was a long way off the original story, with things added and things changed, and really, lets face it, the movie is far far bigger than her written story......we didn't see forums started like this one, about the story in the paper, how many of us would be Brokies because of the story alone?

I think that has to do more with the medium than quality. One is a short story, and the other a movie that received a lot of attention from press etc. Movies most often get more attention than the novels they are based on.

Offline Kelda

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2009, 04:28:38 am »
I'm defintely in the middle camp here - I can see why people think she has a right to moan about it, but also I feel annoyed for her for being so horrible & whiney in the way she has come across in this interview. Like folk have said - what did she expect? And she can easily throw those stories out and have nothing to do with them. Noone makes her read them.

Like Paul said whatever happened to Annie's statement about "finishing the story..."?

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Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2009, 11:04:32 am »
I wonder what her reaction would have been if she'd had let Gus Van Sant do Brokeback Mountain a la "My Own Private Idaho" style...  I bet her head would have spun around when she saw the finished product.  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2009, 11:29:39 am »
I wonder what her reaction would have been if she'd had let Gus Van Sant do Brokeback Mountain a la "My Own Private Idaho" style...  I bet her head would have spun around when she saw the finished product.  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Imagine someone like Keanu Reeves as Ennis. ...  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Like Paul said whatever happened to Annie's statement about "finishing the story..."?

Well, but "finishing the story" is one thing. Telling an author he or she should have written an entirely different story than he or she wrote is quite something else.

As Annie essentially says, she didn't set out to write a story about two gay cowboys in love. She set out to write a story about homophobia.

I think it's interesting that she seems in particular to single out the "moving-on Ennis" genre of fanfiction for her authorial indignation.  :-\

It's about how her audience interpreted the story in their own ways.  She deliberately left "open space" in the story for it to be interpreted by the reader.  And now she's upset with some of the interpretations.  Why should they bother her?  Yes, the reader got initially what the story was about.  They read her work.  IMO, she should be grateful for that.  

But because a few folks took their interpretations a few steps further than how she would have, she now condems everybody and the whole story and wishes she never wrote it?  Oh come on, what a temper tantram fit for a bitchy drama queen!!

I actually feel kind of insulted by her.  She first gave us this gift of a movie that touched us all (in many different ways, as she intended it to with her "open spaces") and now she wants to take it all back from us?  I used to have respect for her, but now I think I just wanna bitch slap her...  OMG lady, let it go...

I don't think she's complaining about people "interpreting" her story; I think she's complaining about people more or less telling her that she got her own story "wrong," that she should have created an entirely different work of art than she did (that is, she should have written a story with a happy ending). And telling this to a writer who is a Pullitzer Prize winner. ...  ::)

And I think you misspoke yourself, Eric. I'm sure you meant to say that Annie Proulx gave us a story. Larry McMurtry, Diana Ossana, and Ang Lee gave us a movie.

If anybody has any doubts, my sympathies are entirely wtih Annie. I could wish she were a little less cranky about this, but she is who she is.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 01:40:19 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2009, 12:10:16 pm »
"Sometimes the cart gets away from the horse—the characters outgrew the intent. "

Yes, Ms. Proulx, they do. I think that is exactly what happened here. The film uses the tag line "...a force of nature". That is how I see it. We all have our expectations and feelings on Jack and Ennis, and certainly being the one who gave life to them she should be first in line to voice hers.

The truth is, they have trancended these expectations, they have crossed over into the world of folk figure. Paul Bunyan started with someone telling a story, Jack and the Beanstalk did too, and they were expanded upon time and again by different tellers, giving their spin on things. The story of Jack and Ennis is no different. I tend to think she should feel honored that her characters would achieve such status, but she is her own person, filtering things thru her own experences and prejudices and I don't befund her for what she is feeling. I probably would feel the same.

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Offline Mikaela

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2009, 12:11:35 pm »
This interview is a rehash of her earlier "pornish rewrites" rant. 

Anyone who's read Annie knows she's not big on happy endings.  However, having written the story, with all its ambiguity, and the nerve she struck in so many people, she'll just have to get used to the fact that, although she "owns" the characters, Jack and Ennis now belong to the world. 

It's bigger than her.  Of course people get that it's about homophobia.  It just doesn't end there.  It's a springboard for all kinds of things. 

I agree with this and with Amanda's posts here on this thread.

I am still surprised that this is Annie Proulx's reaction to having struck a nerve and managed to reach so many people with her story. People *do* get that BBM is about homophobia, - those who write "happy ending" stories are stating that they wish homophobia was a thing of the past, or a thing of less impact in society - and they use two beloved characters to make that statement and to show how a society and a relationship possibly could be, if and where this alternate development had occurred. Granted, I'm sure, some of it is poorly written and some of it is "porn without plot" - but at least she's inspired a reaction from readers who do not just shrug and go on without caring.

I'm of course not disputing that she has copyright to her story and its characters.

And I can very well see how she could be extremely annoyed by fanfiction being sent her - especially if they say "here's what you should have written" which I somehow find it difficult to believe that many people actually would be dumb enough to tell her to her face. She doesn't have to read it though, or even glance at it - and how does she know the senders are who they claim to be anyhow?
 
I don't think adding to a story, making up scenes, thinking out alternate endings is anything new. I bet everyone including Annie Proulx has done that when they read a riveting story. Doesn't everyone do that? From they're quite young? Even if they don't put the stories on paper/screen and don't write fanfiction?

I remain surprised at the way she dislikes readers with "strong fantasy lives". The story is ambiguous, and deliberately so - there are lots of open spaces for interpretation. One such interpretation is  Ang Lee's film.

IMO fanfiction is another way of interpreting and discussing an author's story and its characters. Nobody (I think) will write fanfic about characters and plots that leave them profoundly indifferent. It is because she's moved people deeply and stirred emotions that a number of readers use this way of working through their feelings and opinions. Even if some readers aren't very verbal or choose unfortunate ways of expressing their admiration. I think it wouldn't hurt her if she was gracious enough to consider this, and to let be, let be.

She's created a story and two characters for the ages. They've taken on lives of their own. Many authors go their whole life without achieving that.  I wish she could be proud of it, and not so annoyed with everything that follows.

Also I wish she could find it in herself to be less publicly dismissive of her readers' ways of expressing their feelings, their interpretations and - ultimately - their gratitude.


Offline serious crayons

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Re: Annie Proulx's still pissed...
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2009, 12:13:46 pm »
I can see where getting deluged with fanfic mail -- some implying that "this is how the story SHOULD have gone" -- might become annoying, but it's highly ungracious to make such a big deal about it, IMO. As others have pointed out, she can simply choose not to read it.

And it seems odd to be so outraged that the characters you've created are beloved and have touched a cultural nerve. Are William Shakespeare, Jane Austen, L. Frank Baum, Margaret Mitchell and Gene Roddenberry all turning in their graves about the liberties others have taken with their characters and stories? If Annie Proulx gets this much unwanted feedback from fans, imagine what George Lucas must have to endure!

FWIW, the Paris Review was founded in Paris by Americans, including George Plimpton. It's now based in New York and is written and edited by English-speaking writers.

Somebody needs to buy the rest of the article so we can see whether she says anything more on the subject, possibly in a more positive vein.


Mikaela, your post came in while I was writing, and I see you have expressed some similar thoughts.