Author Topic: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women  (Read 11578 times)

Offline serious crayons

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From Salon's "Broadsheet" women's blog:

Friday, June 12, 2009 03:18 PDT
Did David Letterman get a free pass?


If there was any question that a stubborn strain of old-school sexism persists in Obama's America, one has only to look at certain leaders of what the right wing loves to call the "liberal media" but which is sounding and acting, recently, more like the frat-house media. There, like a virus hiding in the body before, perhaps, staging a comeback, misogyny has found a place to lurk almost undetected, at least by the usually sharp eyes of progressive feminists.

Examine the symptoms of this infection, beginning with David Letterman's comments (widely noted but insufficiently analyzed) about Sarah Palin "buying makeup at Bloomingdale's to update her slutty flight attendant look," as well as his joke about Palin's teenage daughter: "Sarah Palin went to a Yankees Game yesterday … during the seventh inning stretch, her daughter was knocked up by Alex Rodriguez." (Letterman insists he was talking about her 18-year-old daughter, Bristol, who actually had been, well, knocked up, not her 14-year-old, Willow, the daughter who attended the game.) A week before these remarks aired, there was an uglier outbreak of the contagion in the pages of Playboy -- never a bastion of egalitarian forward thinking, but still -- where writer Guy Cimbalo published a list of 10 conservative women he'd like to "hate fuck," a term that various observers interpreted as rough sex, sex tinged by rage, or rape. (Gabe Winant wrote for Broadsheet about the "Hate Fuck" story, which has since been yanked by Playboy.) Worse than the violence of the general sentiment was the graphic specificity of the "Hate Fuck Rating" appended to each woman -- a list that included Michelle Malkin, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Dana Perino and Laura Ingraham. On Hasslebeck: "You'd be better served sucking off Regis Philbin." On Malkin: "Worse than fucking Eva Braun."

Both cases were met with a tepid response from the left. Though Letterman apologized on Wednesday’s show (see video below), his tone was mock-serious, and his audience chuckled along.

Imagine if, say, Michelle Obama, or Rachel Maddow, or Nancy Pelosi became the target of similar invective. The outcry from the left would be deafening. Shouldn’t liberals exhibit the same sort of decorous treatment we demand for ourselves? Sexist comments like Letterman’s and Cimbalo’s also conjure a troublingly insular, clubhouse atmosphere in lieu of an inclusive political party. What's more, the gender-based stereotypes they conjure are as stale and ignorant as any voiced by the old Neanderthal right: Pretty women are de facto stupid, sexually promiscuous and low-class. Indeed, it's the latter slight that has been least remarked upon and is, perhaps, the most disturbing. “Slutty flight attendant” is not just a sexual put-down; it's a socioeconomic one. Likewise, when Cimbalo says, of right-wing blogger Pamela Geller, "Even a Silkwood shower won't get rid of the stench of Fascist divorcee and Elizabeth Arden's Red Door," the classist sentiment is unmistakable. It's a combination of gutter misogyny and snobbery, a return to a 1950s kind of insult. This is like saying a woman has a "reputation," that she's "that kind of girl," one from "the wrong side of the tracks." Cimbalo seems to be holding his nose not at the smell of some supposedly déclassé perfume but at the stench of working for a living, of being middle-class or having middle-class tastes.

And what's the problem with sexy women, anyway? The facile answer is to say that female sexuality is threatening in some visceral, primitive way. But maybe the deeper fact is that pretty women remind us that the world is essentially unfair -- and if the world is unfair, then the progressive quest for fairness may be quixotic and unnatural. There is no more free market economy than your average singles bar. In any case, stern conservative strength in a woman has undone the left for ages: See Margaret Thatcher. Liberals would probably contend that these women present much to argue with, propounding odious views with real-world implications -- they do, they do -- but why not attack their ideas rather than insult them? Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh incite their share of leftist rage, but I have yet to hear Gingrich maligned as a bimbo, or Limbaugh as a slut (just a "big fat idiot," to borrow a phrase from Al Franken, an impersonal and genderless slight). Partly, of course, this is because no such terms exist for men -- another digression entirely.

Asking why it is that liberal women do not often take liberal men to task for these attitudes is well worthwhile. Maybe we don't want to appear shrill and humorless, unable to take a joke. Or maybe it's thought that conservative women are too ideologically reprehensible to merit a defense. But to challenge this kind of sexist talk is not the same thing as agreeing with a woman's politics. If the left is allowed to remain a refuge for this sort of misogyny, if this virus in the body politic is allowed to flourish, then it is likely only a matter of time before it is once again directed at liberal women who are threatening in some way, as happened to Hillary Clinton. Call Pamela Geller racist for her anti-Islamic views, but leave her "top-heavy frame" aside.

― Amanda Fortini




Offline Nevermore

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 05:02:03 am »
Fortini articulates exactly what enraged and frustrated me so much about last year's election ugliness--enraging that it's still okay to undermine female power (provided the attack is packaged as righteous progressive indignation) by targeting her specifically female attributes, and frustrating as hell to see women doing it to other women. Letterman's dismissal of Gov. Palin as a "slutty flight attendant" type is the flip side of the right-wing dismissals of feminists as ugly women who couldn't get a man. The subtext is, she's too pretty (e.g., a bimbo) or too unattractive, and therefore, she's not one of those women who count. So it doesn't matter if respect is not paid, because disrespecting her isn't like disrespecting women who do count.
Hate to get all retro and Bennington-womyn's-studies and all, but disrespect to one is indeed, disrespect to all, and it's disappointing to see women of either political stripe not blow the whistle and call bullshit, but no, they're too busy pulling each other's hair and scratching each other's eyes out, leaving men to jeer on the sideliens and go on running everything as they always have . I wish I could remember (and Google was no help) the name of the Victorian whoo-zis who said of the early feminists that they had "forgotten how to be ladies and not yet learned to be gentlemen."

Offline Shasta542

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 06:20:28 am »
The National Organization of Women has named Letterman to their "Hall of Shame" -- that's an indication of how far he went.

http://www.now.org/issues/media/hall-of-shame/
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 10:02:20 am »
Fortini articulates exactly what enraged and frustrated me so much about last year's election ugliness--enraging that it's still okay to undermine female power (provided the attack is packaged as righteous progressive indignation) by targeting her specifically female attributes, and frustrating as hell to see women doing it to other women. Letterman's dismissal of Gov. Palin as a "slutty flight attendant" type is the flip side of the right-wing dismissals of feminists as ugly women who couldn't get a man. The subtext is, she's too pretty (e.g., a bimbo) or too unattractive, and therefore, she's not one of those women who count. So it doesn't matter if respect is not paid, because disrespecting her isn't like disrespecting women who do count.
Hate to get all retro and Bennington-womyn's-studies and all, but disrespect to one is indeed, disrespect to all, and it's disappointing to see women of either political stripe not blow the whistle and call bullshit, but no, they're too busy pulling each other's hair and scratching each other's eyes out, leaving men to jeer on the sideliens and go on running everything as they always have . I wish I could remember (and Google was no help) the name of the Victorian whoo-zis who said of the early feminists that they had "forgotten how to be ladies and not yet learned to be gentlemen."

Hmm, I'd want to hear more about that whoo-zis before deciding to give that remark any credence. Comments about Victorian feminists forgetting "how to be ladies" were the equivalent of those about modern feminists' leg-shaving habits. Speaking of targeting specifically female attributes.

Remember that this piece was written by a woman, discussing insults made by men. So it's not so much about hair-pulling and eye-scratching as it is about speaking up about men who apparently haven't yet "learned to be gentlemen."

If I sound touchy, it's because the flip side was when, back in the bad old election days, liberal women who did what Fortini urges -- attack Palin's ideas rather than insult her as a woman -- were often accused of sexism. Saying a woman's ideas are dumb or that the woman is incompetent is not the same as saying that women are dumb and incompetent. Misunderstanding, or pretending to misunderstand, became such a handy little political weapon. And then again, sometimes liberal women undoubtedly did cross that line. The waters were easily muddied.


Offline louisev

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 10:16:17 am »
 
ORLY?

Quote
Imagine if, say, Michelle Obama, or Rachel Maddow, or Nancy Pelosi became the target of similar invective. The outcry from the left would be deafening.

you mean like "angry black woman" (Obama) and that race-baiting hunt for her Princeton senior thesis?

Or "chirpy gay" (Maddow) ?

Or "Botox Nancy" Pelosi?

No no one ever ridiculed any of THEM and got a free pass...  /sarcasm off
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Fran

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 01:31:56 pm »
Everyone -- yes, even Rush Limbaugh -- should stop attacking/criticizing/making jokes at the expense of kids of politicians (and celebrities) until the kids are at least out of college.  It's hard enough being a regular kid these days.  It must be absolute hell to be a kid with a famous parent.  These kids can't help it that their parents are politicians (or celebrities).  They didn't choose their parents, and their lives shouldn't be scrutinized by the media just because they have famous parents.  And I bet we could all get by just fine without seeing the embarrassing gawky-teen photos or seeing the underage drinking photos or hearing about the mistakes kids often make on their way to adulthood.

Thanks for the first post, Katherine.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2009, 05:57:22 pm »
 
ORLY?

you mean like "angry black woman" (Obama) and that race-baiting hunt for her Princeton senior thesis?

Or "chirpy gay" (Maddow) ?

Or "Botox Nancy" Pelosi?

No no one ever ridiculed any of THEM and got a free pass...  /sarcasm off

And you're not even mentioning the ridicule that time and again has been directed at Hillary Clinton.

The difference to me is that Sarah Palin is so much better at playing the offended victim. And of course it comes across as more than a bit hollow to me, from a woman who used about every proverbial "womanly vile" in the book during her campaign when her lack of relevant competence and qualifications were demonstrated (overt flirting and faux ingenue eye-batting among them) and who herself readily stooped to very below-the-belt-type accusations (the "palling around with terrorists" comes to mind") - and who moreover IMO holds political views that are directly anti-womens' rights - the anti-choice stance for instance.

No, I'm *not* defending sexist comments directed at Palin or any other woman. I just don't think she's in a position to be so horribly offended. 

It more than anything strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black (if I got that expression right).

As a matter of fact, when it comes to political realities, I think the whole Letterman thing was more than anything a gift from above to her, because not only does it give her another 15 minutes of fame being seen to defend the moral high ground, but also she will no doubt use this matter endlessly as proof that absolutely all criticism of her - ever - on any subject and in any context - was in fact sexist.

Offline Shasta542

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2009, 06:01:22 pm »
I think she was mostly offended that he included her children in his crude remarks. Anyone who wouldn't be horribly offended about that wouldn't be much of a mother or father--IMO.
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 11:36:57 pm »
I think she was mostly offended that he included her children in his crude remarks. Anyone who wouldn't be horribly offended about that wouldn't be much of a mother or father--IMO.

True, Palin has every right as a mother to get defensive about her daughter.

Then on the other hand, Letterman insists he meant Bristol, who Palin herself thought old enough and mature enough to make the decision to keep her child and to marry at 16-17 years of age.  Bristol is 18, she's an adult now and fair game and perfectly capable of defending herself.  She's definitely young, but not a child anymore.

Offline louisev

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 11:51:38 pm »
 
Palin has a much bigger issue at hand right now - trying to justify the legislation to spend $26 billion dollars to build a natural gas pipeline from the North Slope  when natural gas sources in the lower 48 are shuttered due to the low price of natural gas.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”