Author Topic: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts  (Read 90843 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #210 on: July 31, 2009, 01:31:04 pm »
boy do I know how that feels .... I'm as stuborn as a mule sometimes .... if I'm upset about something then I can't let it lie.:-\

Moreover, if someone seems to be responding directly to something that I wrote, I'm afraid I'm being rude if I don't at least acknowledge the response--with another post.  :-\
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #211 on: July 31, 2009, 02:40:29 pm »
boy do I know how that feels .... I'm as stuborn as a mule sometimes .... if I'm upset about something then I can't let it lie.:-\
#

Me too! See Shasta - you're not the only one that feels that way, I ahave been know to et things go but I'm not so good at it as Kerry is!

And Shasta can I just say, you're a bright spot for me at Bettermost.  :-*
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Offline Shasta542

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #212 on: July 31, 2009, 03:23:07 pm »
#

Me too! See Shasta - you're not the only one that feels that way, I ahave been know to et things go but I'm not so good at it as Kerry is!

And Shasta can I just say, you're a bright spot for me at Bettermost.  :-*

Thank you, Kelda.  :-* Same here!  You are very good at trying your best to look at both sides. You have been that way ever since I've been here. I appreciate that. I'm sure many people do.
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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #213 on: August 01, 2009, 05:25:02 pm »
I know. It's much better when everybody agrees with everything, isn't it? Utopia.

 ;)

UTOPIA
The word comes from Greek: οὐ, "not", and τόπος, "place".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia

I guess Utopia is no place at all, and resides entirely inside the imaginations of those attempting to create it.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #214 on: August 01, 2009, 05:40:32 pm »
I can understand your dilemma, Shasta. But how else could it work? You tend to be politically conservative, and you're on a site where the majority of members tend to be politically liberal (note: there are of course varying degrees, exceptions, overlap, etc.). If you want to express a view that's different from the OP's, most likely others will want to express a view that is different from yours. But it needn't get hostile or insulting.

I welcome a diversity of opinions here, as long as people express them respectfully. I've been really pleased with the tone here over the past few weeks, and would be happy if people with minority viewpoints would jump in and discuss them while maintaining that friendly atmosphere.

Hi Crayons!  :)

As usual what you have said is mostly true. I agree the political mean of frequently posting Bettermostians is far left of center, and moving further to left since many conservatives spend more time off site than before. And the problem really isn't those gang attacks on conservatives, that resembled poor Tippy Hedren being pecked to death by all those Ravens and Gulls in Hitchcock's masterpiece "The Birds".



No, that wasn't the basic underlying problem that developed on Bettermost about a year ago. The problem, IMO, is the censorship that resulted from the "New Civility". I remember the days when Phillip's bottom line rule was  NO DIRECT PERSONAL ATTACKS. PERIOD, END OF STORY. But, as the mods got a whip hand because of the new civility, the whiners and complainers started their whining and complaining and the censoring started.

Nothing harms a social networking opinion site more successfully than censorship. Without the censorship there would be no "Retreat", so in a sense, the mods and the whiners created the "Retreat". Thanks, we are very pleased with Jess's handiwork.  :)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #215 on: August 01, 2009, 06:20:21 pm »
Hi Crayons!  :)

Hi 'plex! :)

Quote
No, that wasn't the basic underlying problem that developed on Bettermost about a year ago. The problem, IMO, is the censorship that resulted from the "New Civility". I remember the days when Phillip's bottom line rule was  NO DIRECT PERSONAL ATTACKS. PERIOD, END OF STORY. But, as the mods got a whip hand because of the new civility, the whiners and complainers started their whining and complaining and the censoring started.

Well, I guess we'll never agree on what constitutes censorship (technically, it has to be undertaken by the government; the First Amendment does not guarantee freedom of expression in a publication/site/broadcast channel that is privately paid for). Nor, apparently, will we agree about the whining/complaining/"censoring"/troublemaking or what its effect was.

Quote
Nothing harms a social networking opinion site more successfully than censorship. Without the censorship there would be no "Retreat", so in a sense, the mods and the whiners created the "Retreat". Thanks, we are very pleased with Jess's handiwork.  :)

I'm glad to hear it! As someone whose posts were consistently "censored" from Jess' blog, I wouldn't presume to register there. So I will take your word for it that everyone there is having a good time. It seems a happy ending all around.


Offline brokeplex

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #216 on: August 01, 2009, 06:36:24 pm »
Hi 'plex! :)

Well, I guess we'll never agree on what constitutes censorship (technically, it has to be undertaken by the government; the First Amendment does not guarantee freedom of expression in a publication/site/broadcast channel that is privately paid for). Nor, apparently, will we agree about the whining/complaining/"censoring"/troublemaking or what its effect was.

I'm glad to hear it! As someone whose posts were consistently "censored" from Jess' blog, I wouldn't presume to register there. So I will take your word for it that everyone there is having a good time. It seems a happy ending all around.



censorship vs CENSORSHIP? ok, I will go along with that discussion, and within the context of a discussion of Constitutional liberties, a mod or two on this opinion forum deleting some posts or some language in the posts is small potatoes. but that isn't really the issue, the issue is the effects on the discussion forum when posts are deleted or modified because someone, somewhere found the post irksome or offensive or annoying. what this type of "censorship" does is to trivialize the discussions, and create an impression of unfairness and one-sidedness. of course it doesn't affect our constitutional liberties of freedom of speech, after all, a "censored" member can wander off and post his or her thoughts somewhere else. but it hurts the opinion site.

and censoring or modifying posts on a personal blog is a different kettle of fish than doing the same thing on the public forum. it did not pass notice that some of the members on Bettemost made an attempt to hijack some of the private blogs. in fact that happened on Wally and Beve's Room, and HK stopped that quickly. I might not have deleted as extensively as he did, but I agreed with his actions.


Offline louisev

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #217 on: August 01, 2009, 07:19:30 pm »
censorship vs CENSORSHIP? ok, I will go along with that discussion, and within the context of a discussion of Constitutional liberties, a mod or two on this opinion forum deleting some posts or some language in the posts is small potatoes. but that isn't really the issue, the issue is the effects on the discussion forum when posts are deleted or modified because someone, somewhere found the post irksome or offensive or annoying. what this type of "censorship" does is to trivialize the discussions, and create an impression of unfairness and one-sidedness. of course it doesn't affect our constitutional liberties of freedom of speech, after all, a "censored" member can wander off and post his or her thoughts somewhere else. but it hurts the opinion site.

and censoring or modifying posts on a personal blog is a different kettle of fish than doing the same thing on the public forum. it did not pass notice that some of the members on Bettemost made an attempt to hijack some of the private blogs. in fact that happened on Wally and Beve's Room, and HK stopped that quickly.I might not have deleted as extensively as he did, but I agreed with his actions.



But I'm afraid the onus is on you to demonstrate that what constitutes "censorship" was not merely the discretion of the moderators in removing personal attacks and hostile language that caused discussions, particularly those in the Current Events forum, to degenerate into non-productive conflicts between the same residents over and over again.  The mods who volunteered to moderate that area bent over backwards to give fair warning, to encourage civil discussion and self-moderation - and that included every one of us posting there, whether we were moderators or regular ol' residents - and to give preference to locking a thread for general overall conflict that failed to resolve after things went on too long or the debate became circular or veered completely off-topic.  It was a great deal of effort to do this, and was not willy-nilly and it was not a whim by one person.    You clearly see it from the lens of your own experience here, but no one person acts in a unilateral fashion to simply delete things they don't like.  That has never happened here, and Phillip would never permit it to happen.  We did not install "civility police" - the policy was clearly laid out in order to handle the routine daily conflict that the Current Events area had become during and after the 2008 election.  So I take issue with your characterization of censorship as leading to trivializing the discussisons here or making it all one sided.
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Offline bailey1205

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #218 on: August 01, 2009, 07:25:17 pm »
Bill, I am really glad you are happier at the Retreat !!

Sounds like it's a win/win.

I guess you could look at the accusations that people were censored as whinning and complaining, but
as long as you found a place you feel comfortable in.......  that is great.

Have a good life.


Offline bailey1205

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Re: Off-site discussion of BetterMost posts
« Reply #219 on: August 01, 2009, 07:28:19 pm »
I do see some that retreated to the "retreat" continue to come on here, so I guess it wasn't all that bad.

 :)