Author Topic: Women at risk  (Read 9683 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Women at risk
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 09:48:01 pm »
I think we may be veering somewhat off-topic.  This thread doesn't need to spiral off into another endless debate about gender roles, attributes or stereotypes.  I'm clearly one who clearly believes that gender is completely fluid and people born male and people born female pick up both masculine and feminine qualities.  And individuals express those qualities as they see fit.  I think few people really want to be painted into a gendered box.

The constant equation of femininity (as it manifests in both males and females ) with weakness is a form of misogyny... so that may be somewhat relevant here.

But, I think there are other threads here at BetterMost where the more general discussions of gender roles and gender identifications can and have been discussed at length.

I agree a hunerd percent friend! There are good places to debate gender roles, but this is a thread about women at risk, so let's keep it there.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Women at risk
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 10:25:14 pm »
Hi Lee,

Yes, I think the practical, real-world, real-life dangers and challenges that face people born female around the world are really important concerns to discuss.  When you sit back and look at the enormous obstacles placed in front of women trying to simply get an education, find a basic job, have any kind of sexual freedom/ satisfaction or have autonomy/independence from male people (on an international level)... it's almost overwhelming.

There are theoretical debates (that I believe are of real value) but there are real-world aspects of oppression that are enormous, and deserve their own form of discussion.

From the perspective of an outsider (someone not of the culture or nationality where the gendered discrimination is happening, Afghanistan or anywhere non-American) it's hard to know what to do to help.  That's my main question and concern when it comes to international feminism.  From such a distance, it's hard to know how to help, as much as I want to at the deepest level.


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Offline milomorris

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Re: Women at risk
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 11:24:00 pm »
But why do you think she was asking?  Because of misogyny, many men DO have a problem with women as authority figures over them.  If there wasn't a problem, she wouldn't have had to ask.

That's like asking a black man if he is, or ever has been a member of a gang...or sold drugs. The question is based on a negative stereotype. If they want to filter out guys who have problems with female management, there's got to be a better way to do it.

But I see that as masculinity pushed to the brink.  NO ONE wants to be shown up.  That's the male ego right there.  Before, men had to accept being a loser, being weaker, being beaten.  Men's aggression drove them to weapons.  Now, if they get beat up in a fair fight, they don't lick their wounds and go home and bear the brunt of a lower status because they weren't top dog.  They grab a gun and immediately return to kill the other so they can regain status.  

I agree 100%. There used to be a time when boys were taught how to be an honorable loser. That's gone now, so boys/men don't know how to handle it.

Sure, but cooperation works just as well.

Not exactly the same results, but I agree that cooperation is critical too.

Or it could describe men with a great fear of being psychologically emasculated by situations.

Yes. And when that fear leads the man to violence, it has become pathological...or in other words, dysfunctional. Of course said fear is only one of many root causes of violence against women.

Since when is handling something cooperatively and in the spirit of peace, soft-minded?

I never said anything about cooperation. What I disagree with is the idea that masculinity should no longer be defined by power, aggression, control and sexual prowess. I think these traits have value. Yes, they can be destructive, but it is up to the individual man and his ability manage those traits constructively.

Now what do you say about their role in masculinity?

Well since I have been admonished not to divert this thread into another conversation about gender roles, I'll offer a short answer on what I think is the most important distinction.

Strength. It is true that both men and women can possess strength. The difference is that when a man lacks strength, his masculinity suffers. When a woman lacks strength, her femininity remains unaffected.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Women at risk
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 11:47:26 pm »
^Thanks Milo.  This is all so interesting.  It really is so interesting and valuable. Gender debates can go on forever endlessly.  I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to end this (above) line of conversation.  It just needs to go in another thread somewhere.

Thanks Buds.  :-*
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie