Author Topic: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17  (Read 84353 times)

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2007, 04:46:46 pm »
I wish all the boyfriends I had had throughout my life were like you Phillip. The longest letter I received was from one of them who lived away from me but it wasn't exactly a letter since he draw everything he wanted to tell me. He's a professional cartoonist. It was cool though, but it wasn't an actual letter but some sort of a personal long comic strip.

He made at least an effort, which is better than many.  One of the reasons John and I have kept going after 20 years is that we -do- communicate openly and honestly about feelings.  There are a lot of guys out there who simply refuse to do this out of some fear they'll lose the argument or that they've never spent time focusing on what exactly they are feeling.  It's too bad, because opening up was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done.

It's always amazing to me when I contrast Jack and Ennis' 20 year "relationship" with my own, and I think one of the things that upsets me about it is my feelings which alternate between anger over how pointless it was to not just take a chance together and sadness over the realization that when you don't have resources or friends that you can be open with who can encourage and support you, and allay your fears, it's not surprising things turned out the way they did.

John and I are living proof that two guys can be together and lead boring, mundane, suburban (or rural for that matter) lives, and nobody cares.   ;D

I spend a lot of time interacting with people living in more rural areas around here - western rural New York is still a Republican bastion of the state, although more like the old Rockefeller Republican party than today's conservative Christian base.  Yet even in these areas, I notice people have trended towards accepting people based on who they are more than what they are.  Nobody wants someone else's "lifestyle" thrust in their face (and they're just as irritated with swinging heterosexuals as they are with the concept of a couple of gay guys flying pride flags and putting pink flamingoes all over the yard next door), but if you treat your neighbors with open respect, friendship, and politeness, people come to accept you accordingly.  The days of the mobs with torches are over, and even in states like Wyoming, those that killed Matthew Shepherd were not the average Wyoming resident by any means.

People who know me accept me as me as they get to know me.  I don't introduce myself as "Gay Phil."  I'm Phillip and people learn more about me if/when they ask questions, and I answer them openly and honestly.  The fact I am so confident about answering a question without embarrassment or wavering seems to be easier for people to deal with than if you try and shield your answers.

And ultimately, most people just don't care.  Ennis wondering if people "knew" or suspected presumed a lot more than the reality that most folks are first and foremost concerned about their own lives and issues, and most people don't have the time or interest to speculate about others.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2007, 05:09:01 am »
Whoa, letters cost 39 cents now to mail?  ;)

Phil, pink flamingoes, really?

I think the beginning of the short story tells us how Ennis is doing by the end of the movie: He is suffused with pleasure when he thinks and dreams of Jack, and he has learned how to husband those images to last all day.  So while I agree with depression at the bus station, I think a combination of the self-acceptance we see growing, and the catharsis of his experience at the Twists has given Ennis a way to have peace of mind.  And as I said somewhere (maybe this thread)  ::) to me he looks downright perky (for Ennis) as he is standing there gazing with satisfaction at the numbers he has just put on his mailbox.  And he sounds downright hearty when greeting Junior.  Maybe it's denial on my part, not wanting this to be a tragedy absolutely through and through, but I think Ennis has found his way to live with a sense of contentment.

But I'm one of those who actually doesn't think the interior of the trailer looks that bleak, by Ennis standards.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #92 on: February 06, 2007, 10:10:59 am »
And he sounds downright hearty when greeting Junior.

Sure he does, for Ennis. He's genuinely happy to see his daughter. Ennis is a taciturn individual. People like him, even when they're happy, their responses are often pretty low-key.

Quote
Maybe it's denial on my part, not wanting this to be a tragedy absolutely through and through, but I think Ennis has found his way to live with a sense of contentment.

I think he has, too.

Quote
But I'm one of those who actually doesn't think the interior of the trailer looks that bleak, by Ennis standards.

Tell you what, there's a part of me that admires Ennis's minimalist aesthetic. Sometimes I look around my home and I feel that I'm drowning in stuff.  ::) :-\
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 07:28:46 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #93 on: February 06, 2007, 05:38:29 pm »
Tell you what, there's a part of me that admires Ennis's minimalist aesthetic. Sometimes I look around my home and I feel that I'm drowning is stuff.  ::) :-\

Me too. And "if you don't got nothin, you don't need nothin" is a pretty sound philosophy.

Offline Cameron

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #94 on: February 06, 2007, 06:53:33 pm »
Actually I agree.  I see Ennis in a state of clinical depression at the bus station.  He is totally withdrawn from people, he is not in the bar like previously because to me he doesn't want to be near anybody.  Another sign of depression his playing with the apple pie, not eating it.  Loss of appetite is another sign of real depression.

Then when Cassie comes over he doesn't even look at her at first and barely speaks.  Yes, I am sure he does want to avoid her but still the way he talks to her fits in with severe depression.

In fact I would have thought his breakdown at the lake with Jack should have been somehow cathartic to him, but obviously it wasn't.  In fact I think that at lake when they were drinking at smoking he was already depresseds. The way he talked and acted even before the breakdown.

In fact I really wonder what happened between Ennis crying in Jacks arms and his driving away.  Whatever else happened to me it all put him in a state of severe depression at the bus station.  To me that is one of the saddest scenes, to see what happened to beautiful Ennis, how he became so pitiful. (IMO)

Anyway, I do agree that he does seem almost perky putting up the numbers on the mailbox.  Also although he does get sad with Alma Jr.  he does no longer seem in the real depression .  To me either he somehow he has begun to heal  and somehow move on in life.

Or the other possibility is that he is further removed from reality and living just for the memories, like in the book and the mailbox number are a further  indication of his loss of reality, they are for Jack.

I'd would like to think he is healing, maybe going to the wedding could be a sign of that.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2007, 07:37:51 pm »
I'd would like to think he is healing, maybe going to the wedding could be a sign of that.

Or if not precisely "healing," then at least that he's changed.

Somewhere a long time ago on another thread somewhere, I wrote that after puzzling for a long time over the purpose of the scene with Ennis and Junior in his truck after the outing with Cassie--where Junior asks to come live with her daddy and Ennis says no--I came to conclude that the purpose of that scene was to set up a contrast with the finale, to show that as a result of the shock of Jack's death, and finding the shirts, Ennis has changed.

In the truck, Ennis isn't "there" for his daughter when she needs him. In the final scene at his trailer, at first he isn't "there" for her, either. Initially, when she asks him to come to her wedding, he says that he can't do it, he's got to go on round-up--the usual excuse for Ennis. But then something happens. He changes his mind. He agrees to come to the wedding. He is now being "there" for someone who loves him and needs him.

Just my POV. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2007, 07:46:15 pm »
But I'm one of those who actually doesn't think the interior of the trailer looks that bleak, by Ennis standards.
I concur, Clarissa. I think Ennis was quite comfortable in that trailer, being the man of simple tastes and minimal needs that he was. And I do see hope as well in the ending--not only the mailbox and the sincerely warm greeting for his daughter (not to mention his all-important decision to attend her wedding), but even the little detail of the television set facing the bed signifies an enduring connection to the larger world, an opportunity to break out of his grief and loneliness.

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2007, 07:59:45 pm »
And if I've gone that far, why spend 39 cents and wait two days for it to get there, when I can send it for free in two seconds and maybe even get a response by the end of the day?
I'm really bad myself, as so many are today, in sending old-fashioned pen-on-paper letters (and was even before the advent of email).

But I think there's still something to recommend in this practice, even with the ease and cheapness that electronic communications afford. For one thing, it gives one the opportunity to practice penmanship, and elegant handwriting can be a beautiful and rewarding ends in itself. It can feel like a gift to the recipient, to convey to them that care was taken in the delivery of the message. Furthermore, the letter is something that was actually held by the writer, and will be held by the recipient--there is a sense of physical contact being made, and not only the mental and/or emotional one conveyed by the letter's contents. Imagine how this sense of "He touched this" might have invested each of Ennis and Jack's postcards to one another with added tenderness.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #98 on: February 08, 2007, 08:10:40 pm »
Imagine how this sense of "He touched this" might have invested each of Ennis and Jack's postcards to one another with added tenderness.

Nicely put, Scott.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17
« Reply #99 on: February 08, 2007, 08:22:35 pm »
Ya got me right in my little communicator's heart!  :'(
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