P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17

[Toast]

Lee, here's what the 2003 and 2004 screenplays/shooting script says about the number of the mailbox, and the garbage - just as in the prop book:

167  EXT: RIVERTON, WYOMING: DEL MAR TRAILER HOUSE: AFTERNOON: 1984:  167

The wind, as ever, blows.

ENNIS'S modest little trailer house, his battered pickup parked in front.
A new mailbox on the trailer house just to the right of the front door. ENNIS has a set of stick-on numbers in his hand. Peels the One off and precisely applies it, then the Seven: Seventeen. Steps back, admires his work. Walks around the side of the trailer to the driveway. Undoes a bungee cord on a dirty metal garbage can, throws the remaining numbers into the trash. Looks up.   

Did you notice if the prop book identifies the small bag on the bed inside the trailer?
Does it call it a manbag? saddlebag? or Juniors bag?

Curious minds would like to know Lee.

[opinionista]

Proulx was very deliberate in making Ennis and Jack sheepherders and not cowboys (i.e., men who are working with cattle). The sheep are important, though some of their import remains mysterious (they have been neglected to a large degree in our various analyses). It might be of interest that most of 1967, when Jack and Ennis reunited, was the lunar Year of the Sheep according to Chinese astrology. Also, both men very possibly were born in 1943 ("not yet twenty" when they first meet in 1963), and most of that year was likewise the Chinese Year of the Sheep.

I read somewhere,  I believe it was on "Getting it movied", that Proulx deliberately made them sheepherders because cowboys tend to hate working with sheep. I think Proulx wanted to depict the image of the cowboy as some kind of ideal Ennis and Jack hoped to become, but never came to pass. This is especially true for Jack. He becomes a bullrider as a part of his dream of becoming someone big and important. Jack wanted to be as good as his father was and also to become a "real" cowboy. 

[Jeff Wrangler]

This is especially true for Jack. He becomes a bullrider as a part of his dream of becoming someone big and important. Jack wanted to be as good as his father was and also to become a "real" cowboy. 

Tell you what, the last time I watched the film and listened to Jack tell Ennis how his father was once a well-known bullrider but had never shared any of his secrets with Jack or gone to see Jack ride, I had a strange, counter-intuitive thought the old man's behavior. I've pretty much always assumed that one reason why Jack had chosen his father's rodeo event--aside from the fact that he couldn't afford a roping horse--was to try to make it right between himself and his father. But what if the old man never shared his secrets or watched Jack ride because he didn't want to encourage his only child from participating in such a dangerous sport?

I say that's counter-intuitive because it almost seems more "caring" of the old man than we see otherwise, but I guess I was remembering that there were some things where my father didn't want me to follow in his footsteps, and I'm an only child, too, like Jack.

[serious crayons]

Tell you what, the last time I watched the film and listened to Jack tell Ennis how his father was once a well-known bullrider but had never shared any of his secrets with Jack or gone to see Jack ride, I had a strange, counter-intuitive thought the old man's behavior. I've pretty much always assumed that one reason why Jack had chosen his father's rodeo event--aside from the fact that he couldn't afford a roping horse--was to try to make it right between himself and his father. But what if the old man never shared his secrets or watched Jack ride because he didn't want to encourage his only child from participating in such a dangerous sport?

I say that's counter-intuitive because it almost seems more "caring" of the old man than we see otherwise, but I guess I was remembering that there were some things where my father didn't want me to follow in his footsteps, and I'm an only child, too, like Jack.

Interesting idea, Jeff. It's plausible, but I don't know if I'd go that far, because I've always felt that Jack's complaint is intended to show conflict and distance between him and his father. To me, reading it as a subtle message about his father's concern would violate Occam's Razor. BUT I do think the old man is more caring than people tend to give him credit for. In the Twist ranch scene, I think OMT is genuinely grieving, not just bitterly trying to cause more trouble.

[opinionista]

Tell you what, the last time I watched the film and listened to Jack tell Ennis how his father was once a well-known bullrider but had never shared any of his secrets with Jack or gone to see Jack ride, I had a strange, counter-intuitive thought the old man's behavior. I've pretty much always assumed that one reason why Jack had chosen his father's rodeo event--aside from the fact that he couldn't afford a roping horse--was to try to make it right between himself and his father. But what if the old man never shared his secrets or watched Jack ride because he didn't want to encourage his only child from participating in such a dangerous sport?

I say that's counter-intuitive because it almost seems more "caring" of the old man than we see otherwise, but I guess I was remembering that there were some things where my father didn't want me to follow in his footsteps, and I'm an only child, too, like Jack.

Hey Jeff. I agree with you. It hadn't ocurred to me Jack somehow wanted to get approval from his Dad. It actually makes sense.

[Jeff Wrangler]

To me, reading it as a subtle message about his father's concern would violate Occam's Razor.

It would that! 

But whatever the reason for the behavior, surely not sharing his secrets and never showing up to watch Jack compete amounts to not encouraging Jack in the endeavor.

And I wish I could understand why I'm suddenly so fascinated wondering why the old man didn't support Jack in his rodeo aspirations. 

Was he already so convinced in his own mind that his son was such a fuck-up that he didn't even try to support Jack in his rodeo aspirations? It would have made for a different story, I know, but perhaps if he had shared his secrets with Jack, and shown Jack some encouragment, maybe Jack would have had a more successful rodeo career. Was the old man, consciously or not, setting Jack up to fail by his own lack of support for his son?   

[serious crayons]

And I wish I could understand why I'm suddenly so fascinated wondering why the old man didn't support Jack in his rodeo aspirations. 

Maybe you've got rodeo aspirations of your own! 

[Jeff Wrangler]

Maybe you've got rodeo aspirations of your own! 

Not bloody likely. ... 

BUT I do think the old man is more caring than people tend to give him credit for. In the Twist ranch scene, I think OMT is genuinely grieving, not just bitterly trying to cause more trouble.

It fascinates me that you see him--and that scene--this way. While I don't think his "troublemaking" is just gratuitous, in that scene with Ennis I've never been able to see anything in John Twist's demeanor except bitterness and deep contempt--contempt for his own son, emphasized by that business of spitting into his cup. 

[Brown Eyes]

And I wish I could understand why I'm suddenly so fascinated wondering why the old man didn't support Jack in his rodeo aspirations. 

Well, it's a good topic Jeff!  And one that probably hasn't been tackled as much as some others.  It is interesting to ponder why John, Sr. doesn't want his son following in his footsteps (in this one aspect).

Yeah, it could be that he wanted to protect Jack from the dangers of the sport.  Or, it could be one more manifestation of what the audience is encouraged to think is abuse or neglect on the part of John, Sr.  Since we don't get the full story about the extent of the father's abuse in the movie like we do in the story, the clues about the relative awfulness of John, Sr. are more subtle.  Maybe the father's decision not to train Jack in bull riding and his further decision not to see Jack ride is meant to show the type of disdain that neglectful/ abusive parents show their kids for totally inexplicable reasons.  My interpretation of how Jack perceives his father's actions is that Jack does take this as a form of neglect or rejection (I base this mostly on the way Jack tells the story and the face he makes... so this is super subjective).

What ever happened to that old thread about putting kids on the "woolies" that showed pictures of fathers putting tiny kids on sheep for rodeo training?  I remember those pictures were really effective in showing how scary that could be to a little kid.

[Jeff Wrangler]

My interpretation of how Jack perceives his father's actions is that Jack does take this as a form of neglect or rejection (I base this mostly on the way Jack tells the story and the face he makes... so this is super subjective).

I would agree with that, Amanda. Goes hand-in-hand with "Can't please my old man no-how," even when he tries to follow in his old man's footsteps.