Was Ennis telling a "boldfaced lie"?

[chowhound]

Earlier today I was reading an interview that Tom Benz, the production manager of Brokeback Mountain, gave in the October of 2006. The following passage I found of interest:

  Rob: Cut scenes....There were several scenes shot for BBM that were edited out of the final print. Would it be possible to get a very detailed listing of these omitted scenes including the characters involved and how the missing scenes related to the plot?

 

Tom: I'm so far removed now, from the strategies of Brokeback, I wouldn't know about the marketing or packaging. I know for the longest time on eBay, you could buy the script that we shot. And then I suppose the detail that would be in that script would be you'd look at the movie and you'd go "wow, that's scene isn't in there" ...because essentially we filmed the script & then edit the story, not the script...you find the story within what you've photographed, so you shoot the script & you edit the story.

 

Rob: Will these "lost" scenes be made available someday?

 

Tom: Again, I'm away from that part of things. In general, I see a wonderful DVD features market come up....it's not just the movie, it's all the other features...suddenly deleted scenes have a value, where they stayed on the cutting room floor before these features came out.

 

Rob: For example: Ennis brings his children to the market and leaves them with Alma. He declares that he must leave immediately to work at the ranch that night (the heifers are calving). We, in the audience, are left to assume that Ennis is telling a boldface lie. Or is he?

 

 

Tom: I remember, it was in Carstairs, the grocery store......If I remember the context, he is trying to go out & see Jack....it was an excuse to go out & see Jack.

 

Rob: It appears that there is a deleted scene preceding this one showing Jack and Ennis together and making plans. I think the film would have been clearer if this cut scene had been included.

 

Tom: That's an opinion & I think what is always interesting is how a Director wants to make the audience work for the story. When I hear comments like this "it would have been clearer", I must say, many Directors would go "good, I'm making them work for it" rather than be disappointed that it was hard to get. The easier a film is to figure out, the less successful it is. No one is challenged by, nobody wants to see it again.

                                                              _________________

Probably I'm an innocent but had it occurred to others that Ennis was telling a "boldfaced lie" in order to get off for a sudden opportunity to see Jack that had just come up? I've always took it at face value and assumed that he was off to look after the livestock. However, it looks as though I must think about this scene again.

[Sason]

It never even occured to me that Ennis was not going to the ranch to work.

Even if I rethink the scene now, it doesn't seem likely to me that he was meeting Jack.

How could he meet Jack on a whim, just like that? Jack was living in Texas, would he come up without telling Ennis beforehand? We know he did that later, but that was after the divorce and there would be no Alma in the way.

I don't think it's plausible that Jack would drive all that way and just turn up at Ennis's doorstep, when he knew he had a wife and kids.

[Monika]

Probably I'm an innocent but had it occurred to others that Ennis was telling a "boldfaced lie" in order to get off for a sudden opportunity to see Jack that had just come up? I've always took it at face value and assumed that he was off to look after the livestock. However, it looks as though I must think about this scene again.

thanks Chowhound for that very interesting observation!


I've seen that scene a hundred times and it has never occurred to me that Ennis was lying. I've always seen the purpose of that scene to be to tell us something about Ennis's and Alma's relationship at that stage. Ennis is always working and not being very considerate to Alma (he is somewhat of an ass in this scene ) and also a way to show us Alma's workplace and Monroe. It becomes very clear that Monroe is a lot nicer to Alma than Ennis is so it's easier for us to understand the divorce.

It strikes me as somewhat strange if it was an excuse to go and see Jack. It seems as they always planned their meet-ups well in advance, indeed months in advance and Ennis always had the fishing trip cover story to use.

[Brown Eyes]

thanks Chowhound for that very interesting observation!


I've seen that scene a hundred times and it has never occurred to me that Ennis was lying. I've always seen the purpose of that scene to be to tell us something about Ennis's and Alma's relationship at that stage. Ennis is always working and not being very considerate to Alma (he is somewhat of an ass in this scene ) and also a way to show us Alma's workplace and Monroe. It becomes very clear that Monroe is a lot nicer to Alma than Ennis is so it's easier for us to understand the divorce.

Yes, this is how I've always seen the grocery scene too... as about how fundamentally strained the relationship was on many different levels.


And, this would really change the order of events...the grocery scene comes before the first postcard arrives from Jack.  At the time of the grocery scene we'd have no reason to think Ennis and Jack were even in contact again (the way things are currently ordered in the film now).

[brokeplex]

Rob: For example: Ennis brings his children to the market and leaves them with Alma. He declares that he must leave immediately to work at the ranch that night (the heifers are calving). We, in the audience, are left to assume that Ennis is telling a boldface lie. Or is he?
Tom: I remember, it was in Carstairs, the grocery store......If I remember the context, he is trying to go out & see Jack....it was an excuse to go out & see Jack.
Rob: It appears that there is a deleted scene preceding this one showing Jack and Ennis together and making plans. I think the film would have been clearer if this cut scene had been included.

DEELIGHTFUL!  I like that different perspective on Ennis! And wow, I really would like to see a re-release of the dvd, with a commentary track and those deleted scenes! 

Thanks for the information

Bill

[Jeff Wrangler]

I've seen that scene a hundred times and it has never occurred to me that Ennis was lying. I've always seen the purpose of that scene to be to tell us something about Ennis's and Alma's relationship at that stage. Ennis is always working and not being very considerate to Alma (he is somewhat of an ass in this scene ) and also a way to show us Alma's workplace and Monroe. It becomes very clear that Monroe is a lot nicer to Alma than Ennis is so it's easier for us to understand the divorce.

It strikes me as somewhat strange if it was an excuse to go and see Jack. It seems as they always planned their meet-ups well in advance, indeed months in advance and Ennis always had the fishing trip cover story to use.

This is how I've always seen this scene, too. This is the scene that introduces Monroe, and it shows that Ennis doesn't place any value on Alma's job.

[Sason]

And, this would really change the order of events...the grocery scene comes before the first postcard arrives from Jack.  At the time of the grocery scene we'd have no reason to think Ennis and Jack were even in contact again (the way things are currently ordered in the film now).

Very true. Haven't even thought of that.

It only adds to my belief that Ennis was not lying at all. He really was going to the ranch to work.

[Brown Eyes]

He really was going to the ranch to work.

Yes, I believe that too. 

[Luvlylittlewing]

I believe he was actually going to work, as well.  I've seen that scene a million times (it seems  ) and I can't image Ennis as the type who would lie to get out of taking care of his kids to go meet up with his lover.  He would look real irresponsible, and a bad father; Ennis is neither, IMHO.

[Marina]

Hi there,

Interesting topic - I've always thought Ennis was truly going to work as well.   I've always loved the subplots of Brokeback Mountain, besides the major story, and one of them was about manhood and what it meant to be a man in that time, and also a father.  What struck me about this scene was that Ennis, being the man, his role and job was considered more important than Alma's, her place was with the children.   He gives her that stern, almost authoritative look when she questions him.  It wasn't really Ennis' fault, it was societal and cultural - society's view of men, women, their roles and families at the time.   (Also I think you can see this with Jack and the Thanksgiving scene).

I liked when Alma ignores Ennis' "orders" though later in the film, being realistic and going out to take the extra shift to help make ends meet, because Ennis' contribution just wasn't enough.   But Alma knew when enough was enough, so I had to hand it to her - but poor Lureen was the long-suffering one.   Not that it was the guys' fault - again, society's rigid rules and gender roles.

I do remember reading somewhere that there was a scene planned where Ennis did lie, saying he was going to work but really going to meet Jack, though, and it wasn't included in the final cut.

Sorry to be all over the place with this answer, but it being one of my favorite films ever, I could go on and on about Brokeback Mountain.  

M