Author Topic: Zero at the Bone by MadLori  (Read 70802 times)

retropian

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #270 on: July 02, 2009, 10:41:08 pm »
Thanks for the link, Leslie!

The objection to the premise of Zero is an extremely fair criticism and one I obviously can't refute nor would I try.  It's just one of those things where the reader will either buy it or not, they'll come along or they won't.  Some things are just dealbreakers. 

Well I love the story! I'm going to embark on your other ones now!

Offline RouxB

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #271 on: July 03, 2009, 01:19:45 am »
In my early fanfic reading days I was not much interested in AU!AU but once I opened my mind I jumped right in and it become one of my favorite genres. I didn't have any trouble accepting the premise of ZATB because, I think, I read it, and I read most stories, without judgement or preconceived ideas of how something "should" be.

I don't see ZATB as some kind of morality play so the fact that Ennis "gets away with murder" doesn't enter into my judgement of the premise. I guess many people do buy the romantic quality in Ennis which just shows to go ya that one man's ceiling is indeed another man's floor.


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retropian

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #272 on: July 03, 2009, 01:56:05 am »
In my early fanfic reading days I was not much interested in AU!AU but once I opened my mind I jumped right in and it become one of my favorite genres. I didn't have any trouble accepting the premise of ZATB because, I think, I read it, and I read most stories, without judgement or preconceived ideas of how something "should" be.

I don't see ZATB as some kind of morality play so the fact that Ennis "gets away with murder" doesn't enter into my judgement of the premise. I guess many people do buy the romantic quality in Ennis which just shows to go ya that one man's ceiling is indeed another man's floor.



I feel just the same. I wasn't interested in AU!AU either, but now I've quite enjoyed a number of them that were recommended to me. I hope I enjoy the other MadLori stories as much as I enjoyed this one.

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #273 on: July 03, 2009, 06:22:58 am »
Thanks for the link, Leslie!


My pleasure, Lori.

Quote
The objection to the premise of Zero is an extremely fair criticism and one I obviously can't refute nor would I try.  It's just one of those things where the reader will either buy it or not, they'll come along or they won't.  Some things are just dealbreakers.

Exactly. I don't like pimps and whores stories but lots of people love them. As someone said to me the other day, books are like opinions. That's why there are so many of them.

L
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Offline MadLori

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #274 on: July 03, 2009, 12:53:58 pm »
In my early fanfic reading days I was not much interested in AU!AU but once I opened my mind I jumped right in and it become one of my favorite genres. I didn't have any trouble accepting the premise of ZATB because, I think, I read it, and I read most stories, without judgement or preconceived ideas of how something "should" be.

I don't see ZATB as some kind of morality play so the fact that Ennis "gets away with murder" doesn't enter into my judgement of the premise. I guess many people do buy the romantic quality in Ennis which just shows to go ya that one man's ceiling is indeed another man's floor.


D's situation is somewhat analagous to the eleventybillion stories about vampires trying to atone for past misdeeds.  That's a huge thing.  Like Angel, for example.
Jack:  I could kick your ass any day of the week.
Ennis:  Then the weeks where you live must have a No Fuckin' Way Day.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #275 on: July 03, 2009, 08:13:46 pm »
Since Zero is getting some posts, I figured I would ask a question or two concerning the plot. I just re-read the book version (yay! for good stories getting published!) and I realized I didn't understand some points.

The first has to do with those guys who at one point kidnap Jack to "get to D". They seem prepared to let Jack go if they can get hold of D - at least they pretend to let Jack go - and I assume those folks were Josey's goons. But she wasn't out to just "get hold of" D - nor to blackmail him once more. She was out to make him kill Jack, and I don't see how that could be achieved by the whole kidnap scenario. Can anyone explain this?

Also I realized that the initial set-up of Josey blackmailing D was a little iffy IMO - she has half a year's worth of photos of him doing various "jobs". Granted those weren't murders of witnesses, but they nevertheless *were* premeditated murders for financial gain. Surely D would very likely have received the death penalty if she'd just handed him over with all that evidence against him? So really the whole witness-killing set-up wasn't really necessary?

And if Maria (the woman Jack saw killed) was about to testify against her hubby and the Dominguez clan, why wasn't she in protective custody too?



I think too much, I guess. My objections to the lack of logic in the bad guys' behaviour actually took away some of my enjoyment of Shades of Grey. Zero is much better, it has me wondering over some points, but never makes me roll my eyes.


And "Angel" totally used to be one of my favourite TV shows, FWIW!   8)

retropian

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #276 on: July 03, 2009, 10:50:53 pm »
Since Zero is getting some posts, I figured I would ask a question or two concerning the plot. I just re-read the book version (yay! for good stories getting published!) and I realized I didn't understand some points.

The first has to do with those guys who at one point kidnap Jack to "get to D". They seem prepared to let Jack go if they can get hold of D - at least they pretend to let Jack go - and I assume those folks were Josey's goons. But she wasn't out to just "get hold of" D - nor to blackmail him once more. She was out to make him kill Jack, and I don't see how that could be achieved by the whole kidnap scenario. Can anyone explain this?

Also I realized that the initial set-up of Josey blackmailing D was a little iffy IMO - she has half a year's worth of photos of him doing various "jobs". Granted those weren't murders of witnesses, but they nevertheless *were* premeditated murders for financial gain. Surely D would very likely have received the death penalty if she'd just handed him over with all that evidence against him? So really the whole witness-killing set-up wasn't really necessary?

And if Maria (the woman Jack saw killed) was about to testify against her hubby and the Dominguez clan, why wasn't she in protective custody too?



I think too much, I guess. My objections to the lack of logic in the bad guys' behaviour actually took away some of my enjoyment of Shades of Grey. Zero is much better, it has me wondering over some points, but never makes me roll my eyes.


And "Angel" totally used to be one of my favourite TV shows, FWIW!   8)

Good questions! I don't know the answers either. ;)

What were some of the questions you had about "Shades of Grey"? I really enjoyed that story too.

Offline RouxB

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #277 on: July 04, 2009, 02:36:56 am »
Good questions! I don't know the answers either. ;)

What were some of the questions you had about "Shades of Grey"? I really enjoyed that story too.

Shades of Grey in my top 5 faves for sure. I think I'll go read it!

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Offline MadLori

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #278 on: July 04, 2009, 02:56:23 am »
Since Zero is getting some posts, I figured I would ask a question or two concerning the plot. I just re-read the book version (yay! for good stories getting published!) and I realized I didn't understand some points.

The first has to do with those guys who at one point kidnap Jack to "get to D". They seem prepared to let Jack go if they can get hold of D - at least they pretend to let Jack go - and I assume those folks were Josey's goons. But she wasn't out to just "get hold of" D - nor to blackmail him once more. She was out to make him kill Jack, and I don't see how that could be achieved by the whole kidnap scenario. Can anyone explain this?

Also I realized that the initial set-up of Josey blackmailing D was a little iffy IMO - she has half a year's worth of photos of him doing various "jobs". Granted those weren't murders of witnesses, but they nevertheless *were* premeditated murders for financial gain. Surely D would very likely have received the death penalty if she'd just handed him over with all that evidence against him? So really the whole witness-killing set-up wasn't really necessary?

And if Maria (the woman Jack saw killed) was about to testify against her hubby and the Dominguez clan, why wasn't she in protective custody too?



I think too much, I guess. My objections to the lack of logic in the bad guys' behaviour actually took away some of my enjoyment of Shades of Grey. Zero is much better, it has me wondering over some points, but never makes me roll my eyes.


And "Angel" totally used to be one of my favourite TV shows, FWIW!   8)

Hi Mikaela!  These are all good points.  I can't claim that absolutely everything in the story hangs together perfectly...it's a bit of a hazard of writing something serially.  In fact, I seriously considered deleting the entire "kidnap Jack" scenario from the story for just the reason you cite, but it's such a key moment in their interpersonal relationship that I decided to let it slide.

Josey's plan, by her own admission, changed a couple of times, by necessity and as a response to D and Jack's involvement.  You're right in that any of the other kills D performed could have gotten him the death penalty, but that wasn't enough for her.  What she wanted was for him to break his own personal code against killing the innocent and THEN to be executed for THAT.  That element of poetic justice was really what she was after.

When the initial plan went awry, when D refused to kill Jack, the plan had to change.  She tried to reacquire them at the gas station...at this point she probably just wanted both of them dead.  Remember that there still was a contract on Jack's life in which she was financially invested, so she would have wanted him dead as well.

Then they vanished for at least a week.  During this time she would have been able to regroup and formulate a new plan.  My imagining was that she staged the kidnap scheme to get D back under her control, then planned to reacquire Jack, either right then and there or a little way down the road.  Then she'd either force D to kill him or kill him herself and frame D for it.  Taht didn't fly thanks to Megan's interference and the boys disappeared again.  And so on.

It's not perfect, plotwise.  But the real point of the book is the relationship, and D's journey back to the human race, and if the reader can buy the plot enough to hang the relationship on it, it gets by.  I hope.

I'll tell you, writing the sequel is proving much easier because I can write it all in one shot and make these things more clear at the outset.
Jack:  I could kick your ass any day of the week.
Ennis:  Then the weeks where you live must have a No Fuckin' Way Day.

Offline Monika

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #279 on: July 04, 2009, 04:28:37 am »
Itīs interesting to see how differently people read a story. I myself pay very little attention to the external events but am very particular about the internal ones. The characterīs psycological responses must be believable and the Ennis/Jack interaction must be credible, for me to get into a story. Both Zero at the Bone and Midwest_girlīs story Shades of Grey are among my favorite stories because they really manage to be both.
I think your biggest strength as a writer, Lori, is that you have a firm grip on the psyche of your characters.