Free Fall - Freier Fall

[mariska]

Get that physically but there more to it than that as we saw in the rejection of Marc's random pick up attempt failed.
Bettina had to realize this at some point it was not just physical as does Marc. He had fallen in love with another person who was male.  In that scene isn't Bretina trying to make this about her?  III cannot even be properly jealous.  If it is not physical, then here inference is incorrect....?  V

I'n not sure if I understand you correctly:
Do you mean: because Bettina realized that Marc's feelings for Kay were deeper than just physical, jealousy would not be appropriate?
In her case, I would be even more jealous.
And: before Bettina began to attack Marc in the shower, she said to him something like: so tell me what I must do, do you like it from behind? (while standing behind him and touching him). And right after that she said: I can't even be jealous.
It shows a frustration. She can't do it like Kay (the way Marc likes it) simply because she is a woman. She can't compete.

[mariska]

I think they just said "inspired" to mean, as you said, "based on a true story"

Ow, ok. Thanks.

[mariska]

Then the silent but ridiculously well-acted scene where Kay grabs Marcs hand to light his cigarette - Marc can hardly drag his eyes away from Kay's face, you can see him forcing himself to look away.  To me, that scene is as erotic as, maybe more so than, their bed scene, as the sexual tension builds.  

I love to see it, and glad Lacant put so much non-verbal communication between them, and it's all so naturally played by Hanno & Max.

What scenes did I miss with those looks between them?

I can't imagine you missed something  .

The hand grab scene: you are right, it's very erotic and I'm still wondering how two hetero actors can do this. Even for a male/female couple it would be difficult to create such a sexual tension. I think it's a combination of great acting and real life chemistry (that chemistry must be real, you can't fool viewers with that). And I know we spoke about this before, but I'm still not 100% convinced that there is really no attraction at all between Hanno/Max. I mean, in an interview they spoke about "a thin line between gay/straight". So wouldn't it be possible that a person is straight but with one toe or foot over that line just for a certain same gender person (or more persons)? Lousy explanation but I hope you understand what I mean.
Non-verbal language can be very strong, is it even possible that a certain atmosphere between two people can be acted when it's not real?


 

[morrobay]

Get that physically but there more to it than that as we saw in the rejection of Marc's random pick up attempt failed.
Bettina had to realize this at some point it was not just physical as does Marc. He had fallen in love with another person who was male.  In that scene isn't Bretina trying to make this about her?  III cannot even be properly jealous.  If it is not physical, then here inference is incorrect....?  V

I'n not sure if I understand you correctly:
Do you mean: because Bettina realized that Marc's feelings for Kay were deeper than just physical, jealousy would not be appropriate?
In her case, I would be even more jealous.
And: before Bettina began to attack Marc in the shower, she said to him something like: so tell me what I must do, do you like it from behind? (while standing behind him and touching him). And right after that she said: I can't even be jealous.
It shows a frustration. She can't do it like Kay (the way Marc likes it) simply because she is a woman. She can't compete.

I don't think we can assume that Bettina had the time or the knowledge to realize that Marc was in love with Kay.  It's only a day or so after she finds out, right?  All she knows of gay lifestyle is that it's sex between men.  She would have to be pretty sophisticated in her thinking, and probably would have had to have known gay men (or watched gay films ), to take it as far as seeing it as a love affair, and not just sex.  In that way, she is a little like Alma: nothing in her background prepared her for having the father of her child admit that he was having sex with another man.  

I agree with Mariska; she gets in the shower and says "tell me how you like it", and I take that to mean that she sees the affair between Marc & Kay as strictly sex, and deeper feelings of love and tenderness between them don't enter her mind.   I can't see them ever talking about it, ever.  And it's even so new to Marc that he is still coming to terms with how deep his feelings are.

As for Bettina, in that scene, making it about her: in her mind it IS about her.  Is it more or less terrible if he had cheated on her with a woman?  Either way, he cheated, her life has been changed dramatically, and she has to come to terms with that.

[mariska]

There is definitely a momentary look of pain or discomfort, followed by pure ecstacy.

sex in the rain clip

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18vpt7_freier-fall-hanno-koffler-max-riemelt-2-1_na

Jeeez, you made me watch it again  .
But indeed, he shows a short moment of pain. So: amusement - pain - ecstasy.
And jeeez, he looks handsome with wet hair.

[morrobay]

LOL!  The things we have to put up with when discussing this movie!!  

In that clip, I think I noticed for the first time - watch it again and check me    - that Kay licks his fingers?  A la Ennis in Brokeback, when he spits in his hand?  Very quickly, right before he shows the pain.

[mariska]

Marc is at the other end of this look

Yeah, but didn't Marc look at Kay like: what is this all about?

[morrobay]

Right, Marc didn't know what Brandt was talking about.  But still, there's always that silent connection between the two of them.

[morrobay]

I can't imagine you missed something  .

One more, in the police van after Kay gets picked up in the gay bar.  I'm sure there are more.

The hand grab scene: you are right, it's very erotic and I'm still wondering how two hetero actors can do this. Even for a male/female couple it would be difficult to create such a sexual tension. I think it's a combination of great acting and real life chemistry (that chemistry must be real, you can't fool viewers with that). And I know we spoke about this before, but I'm still not 100% convinced that there is really no attraction at all between Hanno/Max. I mean, in an interview they spoke about "a thin line between gay/straight". So wouldn't it be possible that a person is straight but with one toe or foot over that line just for a certain same gender person (or more persons)? Lousy explanation but I hope you understand what I mean.
Non-verbal language can be very strong, is it even possible that a certain atmosphere between two people can be acted when it's not real?

As for the thin line, and maybe an attraction between Hanno & Max, I have no opinion on that - could be, I suppose.  I'm sure you see more articles about them than I do.

When Brokeback came out, there were whole websites dedicated to discussing the sexual preferences of the two stars, especially Jake.  The paps (and fans) were ruthless and kept Jake in the news about it, always questioning it when Jake was out with a guy friend, and constantly saying he was "dating" friends he had known and hung out with for years.  Of course it could be true, but the speculation about Jake was sometimes cruel and unnecessary (not from an actual interview, as you posted above), and I had no opinion about him, either.  

I haven't seen any news about Hanno or Max, not even if they're dating women, let alone men.  I think the German press is either ahead of the curve and don't care, or has better things to do.

I guess if someone has a toe or foot over the line, they'd be bi, and that's a whole other thing to deal with.  Some people don't even think it's a valid sexual preference (not sure if that's the way to put it.)  Maybe we can get some input/opinions from Vincent or others, if they stop by.

[mariska]

LOL!  The things we have to put up with when discussing this movie!!  

In that clip, I think I noticed for the first time - watch it again and check me    - that Kay licks his fingers?  A la Ennis in Brokeback, when he spits in his hand?  Very quickly, right before he shows the pain.

Wow. You're right but I had to watch a few times to notice, it's so quickly.