Author Topic: Free Fall - Freier Fall  (Read 466439 times)

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #530 on: May 24, 2014, 05:47:34 pm »
By the way, I saw a clip of Heiter bis wolkig with English subs, it looks really good.  And I read a review and found a 6 minute clip in German, which of course I couldn't understand, but it was fun watching Max make faces, and look adorable.
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #531 on: May 24, 2014, 06:10:30 pm »
One more, in the police van after Kay gets picked up in the gay bar.  I'm sure there are more.

As for the thin line, and maybe an attraction between Hanno & Max, I have no opinion on that - could be, I suppose.  I'm sure you see more articles about them than I do.

When Brokeback came out, there were whole websites dedicated to discussing the sexual preferences of the two stars, especially Jake.  The paps (and fans) were ruthless and kept Jake in the news about it, always questioning it when Jake was out with a guy friend, and constantly saying he was "dating" friends he had known and hung out with for years.  Of course it could be true, but the speculation about Jake was sometimes cruel and unnecessary (not from an actual interview, as you posted above), and I had no opinion about him, either.  

I haven't seen any news about Hanno or Max, not even if they're dating women, let alone men.  I think the German press is either ahead of the curve and don't care, or has better things to do.

I guess if someone has a toe or foot over the line, they'd be bi, and that's a whole other thing to deal with.  Some people don't even think it's a valid sexual preference (not sure if that's the way to put it.)  Maybe we can get some input from Vincent or others, if they stop by.

I'll get back to you on this one.

Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #532 on: May 24, 2014, 06:21:18 pm »
By the way, I saw a clip of Heiter bis wolkig with English subs, it looks really good.  And I read a review and found a 6 minute clip in German, which of course I couldn't understand, but it was fun watching Max make faces, and look adorable.

Yeahh, he is adorable in this movie. Can I sleep at your place tonight? My bed is broken.

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #533 on: May 25, 2014, 08:38:35 am »
I was in another thread here, "Other interpretations of Brokeback Mountain", and started to watch latest video.  The opening chords of the soundtrack played, and I was immediately in tears.  I had forgotten the power of the movie, the music, the mood it invokes.  I could only watch for a minute, mostly because I can't stand to see anything other than the original.

I love Free Fall; the acting is extraordinary, the chemistry between the men is powerful, and the story is really great.  I still want to watch it and talk about it and find things that I missed the first 50 times.

But Brokeback changed something in me, and no other movie has ever done that.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuzUwuhH7Ns
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #534 on: May 25, 2014, 09:45:29 am »
I was in another thread here, "Other interpretations of Brokeback Mountain", and started to watch latest video.  The opening chords of the soundtrack played, and I was immediately in tears.  I had forgotten the power of the movie, the music, the mood it invokes.  I could only watch for a minute, mostly because I can't stand to see anything other than the original.

I love Free Fall; the acting is extraordinary, the chemistry between the men is powerful, and the story is really great.  I still want to watch it and talk about it and find things that I missed the first 50 times.

But Brokeback changed something in me, and no other movie has ever done that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuzUwuhH7Ns

I recognize your feeling about BBM, for me that's free fall.
When you watch a movie for the first time, even when you miss a lot of details, it gets to you or it doesn't.
I think there always is a reason why a movie hits you.
I'm still thinking what my reason is. For sure I know it is about the central subject of the movie, marc's struggle apart from the fact that Kay is a man (maybe because some feelings are recognizable to me). And there's more but I'm thinking about it.

Any idea why BBM changed something for you?



Offline gattaca

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #535 on: May 25, 2014, 09:54:47 am »
I'n not sure if I understand you correctly:
Do you mean: because Bettina realized that Marc's feelings for Kay were deeper than just physical, jealousy would not be appropriate?
In her case, I would be even more jealous.
And: before Bettina began to attack Marc in the shower, she said to him something like: so tell me what I must do, do you like it from behind? (while standing behind him and touching him). And right after that she said: I can't even be jealous.
It shows a frustration. She can't do it like Kay (the way Marc likes it) simply because she is a woman. She can't compete.
No quite opposite.  When we are shown Marc and the stranger from the club not working out in the stall, we know then that Marc's connection to Kay exceeds physical pleasure.  If Marc just wanted gay sex, he surely could get that easily with those eyes and good looks of his - nor would not have rushed out on his pickup - what 3 mins and it''s done... ?    That's not what Marc wanted or needed.  

I agree - this is the overwhelming reason Bettina should be jealous but she does not know that yet.  If Marc needed just physical, then she and Marc maybe still had the emotional connection they needed for their partnership to possibly survive but Marc, and we are shown this, realizes that his feelings for Kay exceed those of Bettina, emotionally.
 
In the shower, Bettina's comments provide insight.  Marc's attraction to Kay is NOT just a physical pleasure of a penis vs. vagina... and it is that which drives her "like it from behind..and I cannot even be properly jealous"..  I do not think Bettina realizes it is emotional now with Marc and Kay - not just physical..  Did that make sense, I'm not sure I said it well..  V.
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Offline gattaca

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #536 on: May 25, 2014, 09:59:21 am »
I can't imagine you missed something  :D.
The hand grab scene: you are right, it's very erotic and I'm still wondering how two hetero actors can do this.
...
Non-verbal language can be very strong, is it even possible that a certain atmosphere between two people can be acted when it's not real?  

Yes.  I did a quad take on that scene, it was brilliant acting and directing and is one of my favorites.  Kay grabbing Marc's hand, pulling it up close to light his cig, while also drawing intimate eye contact between them both.. and the little glances afterwards..  How Marc's could not understand what Kay was saying by then is obvious to even the most broken gay-dar.  That scene would make any hetero-male uneasy and squirm just a bit and certainly initiate alarm bells. But I'm not a smoker so I have little direct reference - maybe it's common happenstance?  My gut says no.  V.   
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Offline gattaca

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #537 on: May 25, 2014, 10:05:52 am »
I don't think we can assume that Bettina had the time or the knowledge to realize that Marc was in love with Kay.  It's only a day or so after she finds out, right?  All she knows of gay lifestyle is that it's sex between men.  She would have to be pretty sophisticated in her thinking, and probably would have had to have known gay men (or watched gay films :) ), to take it as far as seeing it as a love affair, and not just sex.  In that way, she is a little like Alma: nothing in her background prepared her for having the father of her child admit that he was having sex with another man.  

I agree with Mariska; she gets in the shower and says "tell me how you like it", and I take that to mean that she sees the affair between Marc & Kay as strictly sex, and deeper feelings of love and tenderness between them don't enter her mind.   I can't see them ever talking about it, ever.  And it's even so new to Marc that he is still coming to terms with how deep his feelings are.

As for Bettina, in that scene, making it about her: in her mind it IS about her.  Is it more or less terrible if he had cheated on her with a woman?  Either way, he cheated, her life has been changed dramatically, and she has to come to terms with that.
Perfect.  She had not gotten there yet... but eventually does in the frank conversation she and Marc have later.  
In her mind, Marc cheating with Kay was exponential turmoil much more than if it had been another woman. At least she also would not have felt Marc had been lying to her all these years.  "What you are gay?" had to be flying thru her head.  But also remember that it was Bettina that invited Kay to the "newborn party" and at that point she knew for sure Kay was gay... so her acceptance of gay men was obviously OK until it was Marc...

That's something that most hetero people, usually due to religious dogma,  just cannot conceive, that sexuality is/can be fluid.  Most believe it's either / or, and for many that is true, they never even consider the alternative..  but there's always that range, depending on if you allow it to be..  V.
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #538 on: May 25, 2014, 10:16:01 am »

I guess if someone has a toe or foot over the line, they'd be bi, and that's a whole other thing to deal with.  Some people don't even think it's a valid sexual preference (not sure if that's the way to put it.)  Maybe we can get some input/opinions from Vincent or others, if they stop by.

I looked for the interview but can't find it, will continue looking for it because I need it to explain what I mean. They said something about that thin line and other things related to this subject that I found very interesting.. Not about them, but in general.
I'm sure both gays are straight. I didn't mean bi. But again, I need the interview.
In more interviews they are clear about it: it isn't important what Marc is. They don't think in terms of straight, bi or gay. He just fell in love with a person.
My impression after reading a lot of interviews: both guys are straight but both don't exclude that is is possible for them to feel attracted to a person of the same gender without classifying it as gay or bi. Attraction is a broad concept with many degrees (lausy translation I guess).




Offline gattaca

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #539 on: May 25, 2014, 10:35:01 am »
...
In more interviews they are clear about it: it isn't important what Marc is. They don't think in terms of straight, bi or gay. He just fell in love with a person.  My impression after reading a lot of interviews: both guys are straight but both don't exclude that is is possible for them to feel attracted to a person of the same gender without classifying it as gay or bi. Attraction is a broad concept with many degrees (lausy translation I guess).
No.  Raw attraction, sexual desire,  sexual preferences, sexual identification, love, ...  are all separate.  

We cannot know 100%, only each person knows.  The connections between very close or bonded people - there are often only few lines or exceptions. It is quite possible as we know it happens in life or as we are eloquently shown "in the movies" both in FF and in BBM.   V.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 12:06:56 pm by gattaca »
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