Author Topic: Free Fall - Freier Fall  (Read 494756 times)

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #480 on: May 21, 2014, 05:44:40 pm »
Yes, I wondered what that smile was about. 
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #481 on: May 21, 2014, 05:46:57 pm »
I thought him saying he was sorry was something that we should have seen, I just wonder why they left it out.  As you said, he might not be sorry that it happened, because he was falling in love with Kay, but at least sorry to have caused Bettina so much hurt, sorry that the life she had with him was destroyed at his hand.  More along the lines of "I didn't mean to hurt you."  The whole thing is just too sad.  :(

I know what you mean and indeed it is sad. But it's life.

Another thing I wondered about.
Everyone wanted Kay and Marc ending up together. Not only gay guys, the female viewers too. Isn't that strange? Bettina is the one with the baby. And everyone feels compassion for her, but nobody wants Marc to go back to her.


Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #482 on: May 21, 2014, 05:56:43 pm »
I think it's a hetero/gay movie phenomenon.  Same with Brokeback.  Alma & Lureen were vilified, especially by female viewers.  It's especially apparent in fanfic - total hatred of the women, even though they were cheated on and lied to, their lives basically ruined because of their husbands sexual preferences the men cheated.  If you're married and your spouse cheats, does it matter if the other party is the same sex?  Nobody wanted the women to get in the way of Ennis & Jack's happiness.  Who cares if the women and kids are left in the dust and end up w/nothing?  As long as the two handsome guys get what they want.    ETA: I understand it, but still..................
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #483 on: May 21, 2014, 05:58:24 pm »

Since Freier Fall wasn't promoted over here at all (at least not that I saw), I didn't know anything about the amount of nudity until I saw it; I was surprised (in a good way  ;) )

Wondering: how did you find free fall?
I mean, Germany is Netherlands'neighbour but even I saw it by coincidence.

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #484 on: May 21, 2014, 06:05:24 pm »
I forget exactly how I heard about it, but I know I had it on my pre-order Netflix list last summer, long before it was released on DVD.  Maybe it was a Netflix recommendation, based on other movies I'd rented.
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Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #485 on: May 21, 2014, 06:13:48 pm »
I  agree with this, even the part " Free Fall confronts the question about whether someone cheating on their hetero partner with a same-sex person is a betrayal or noble".
I don't understand the word "noble" in this context (there must be another word), but I can't look at it as just betrayal.
Itís very difficult for me to explain how I feel this (even in my own language), but I think passion is the strongest human emotion and basic instinct. After Kay triggered Marc, there was no way back.
(I think that was the reason he was so angry when Kay showed up again, he didnít want it, he wanted to go on with his life as it was, but at the moment he saw Kay again, he instinctively knew what was going to happen and no way to stop it, he felt ( although not consciously) intuitive that these feelings were part of his true self.
Of course he cheated on Bettina and lied to her. But thatís what happens in situations like this. He couldnít resist Kay but he wanted to loose Bettina either.
And Iím sure: if Kay had not come back, Marc would have been happy either because denying (part of) yourself makes unhappy.
Thatís why I canít think in terms of guilty (Kay nor Marc), just human. Same about the ďnot saying sorryĒ thing. Iím sure he didnít want to hurt Bettina, but during the shower scene he began to feel his affair with Kay changed something inside of him. Saying sorry to Bettina would be like: Iím guilty, I shouldnít have done it. But his feelings for Kay were real and pure, part of him.
I donít know if it makes any sense, itís just how I feel it.

Did I mention to you I like Max a lot? ;D But every time I watch the movie Iím impressed and touched by Hannoís acting. I think Iím going to visit the old guy who got the price for best German actor, steal that thing and bring it to Hanno.


This is going to take me a while to respond, I copied your comments into a Word document and I'll have to get back to you.  But you brought up some great points.

And yes, you did mention that you like Max  :)   He's too adorable not to like, right?
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Offline mariska

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #486 on: May 21, 2014, 06:31:49 pm »
I think it's a hetero/gay movie phenomenon.  Same with Brokeback.  Alma & Lureen were vilified, especially by female viewers.  It's especially apparent in fanfic - total hatred of the women, even though they were cheated on and lied to, their lives basically ruined because of their husbands sexual preferences the men cheated.  If you're married and your spouse cheats, does it matter if the other party is the same sex?  Nobody wanted the women to get in the way of Ennis & Jack's happiness.  Who cares if the women and kids are left in the dust and end up w/nothing?  As long as the two handsome guys get what they want.  Sometimes I can understand it.  Sometimes it pisses me off. 

Wow. I thought you were very into Jack/Ennis and Marc/Kay.
I must say: in BBM I felt so sorry for especially Alma. Because I liked her a lot, she was so sweet and loving. But I have to admit: in BBM I wanted Jack and Ennis together. It was obvious to me that both guys were not happy and missed something in their marriage. Alma and Lureen will find happiness again and so will Bettina.
You can't just build a life on lies.
I gues....if Kay would have been another woman....it would have been different. More threatening. Like Bettina said: I can't even be jealous.
You know, my hubbie left me (and the kids) for someone else. And of course I was angry and affraid, but now I see there's life after divorce, it's not the end of the world and you can't be happy with someone loving somebody else.

Offline estoycomiendounburrito

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #487 on: May 22, 2014, 02:17:37 am »
Hey guys, it's been really interesting reading your opinions on the movie, I read through this thread in a couple of days. I was really happy to find it because I first saw the movie back in like November, the DAY the first torrent with English subtitles came out. I have watched it so many times since, and have never found anywhere there was really in-depth conversation going on about it until now. There is so much I could reply to in these 49 pages but these were the things that stick in my mind now after finishing the thread.

Thanks so much to the person who translated the deleted scenes and the other person who linked to the video of all six of them (although in Russian, I was glad to see them anyway). The thing about the condom is weird. They obviously did not use a condom their first time. I thought, well maybe he was just like... rubbing up against him? But Kay's face was showing pain that was obviously meant to imply penetration was happening. And it made sense later to put that scene (with his mom finding the condom) in the context of his mom discovering them in the hospital, and her asking him how long it had been going on. She would have put two and two together, at that point (as well as the night shifts).

I don't think Kay and Britt had anything going on except a friendship that maybe she hoped would go somewhere, and it worked to hide Kay's sexuality from his colleagues. In the confrontation scene Kay said he wasn't sleeping with anyone else, and I don't really think he was lying. Besides that I think he is gay and doesn't have any problems with it, unlike Marc.

The people saying that Marc isn't gay or bisexual--I really don't get this and I never have, and people say that about almost every gay themed movie that has a closeted man in it, including Brokeback Mountain. I will never understand the people who say that Ennis isn't gay, when his incredible self-loathing surrounding his sexual orientation and how it totally stunts him, ruins his life as well as his family's lives, and renders him completely unwilling to do anything that will actually make him happy, was the entire POINT of the movie. It was not just a "love story" about a straight guy who fell in love with another guy. It's weird to me that people always want to fall back on that. It's like, even if their protagonist is having a gay affair, they still want him to be straight. Not talking to anyone posting here, by the way.

I like the review that somebody posted--about the color red signifying Marc's shame about his sexuality. Obviously, his shame doesn't approach Ennis's (we're in much more tolerant times, and Ennis's shame was as others have said, central to his character). But it is still there. We don't get enough of Marc's backstory to know if he's gay or bi, really. How many girlfriend's he's had or if Bettina was his only serious one, how their sex life was. We don't even know how old he is. One review I saw said he was 36, but I don't think that can be right. I thought mid/late 20s when I saw the movie, and lots of people only even start to question things at that age. Even today. Like others have said, he was relieved, he thought he had escaped Kay. It could be that he had been having gay feelings for a while, or Kay awakened them in him. I definitely think that, again as somebody else said, if Kay had never gotten transferred to his unit, he still would have eventually explored his gay feelings. Maybe 5, 10 years down the road. I don't think Kay pursued him SO aggressively for no reason--he knew that Marc had feelings for him.

One thing that I only saw get mentioned for the first time in the last couple pages is Marc's jealousy. I wonder how much of his being a total mess in the confrontation scene was due to his half pretend reason for being there, which was to accuse Kay of trying to out their relationship, and how much it had to do with him being mad that he thought Kay was sleeping with other men. Also it was just an excuse to see him again, as the scene follow the blue paint cleanup/'I'm suffocating' scenes which clearly implied that he was missing him. When he got to that accusation, I thought, oh, maybe that's what he's really mad about. I'm not sure. Notice his breakdown in that scene happened right after Kay said, "I'm not sleeping with anyone else." And it really shows the depth of his feelings, to me. Why would he be jealous about somebody who was just a 'one off.' I also liked the character development of how they showed he was immediately regretful after punching Kay, and then in that scene when he gets mad again, he turns around and upends the table instead of hitting Kay again.

Well this has been extremely long. And that's only a fraction of my thoughts about it. I'm just glad that there are people who are as interested in the movie as I am!

Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #488 on: May 22, 2014, 08:04:48 am »
Wow. I thought you were very into Jack/Ennis and Marc/Kay.
I must say: in BBM I felt so sorry for especially Alma. Because I liked her a lot, she was so sweet and loving. But I have to admit: in BBM I wanted Jack and Ennis together. It was obvious to me that both guys were not happy and missed something in their marriage. Alma and Lureen will find happiness again and so will Bettina.
You can't just build a life on lies.
I gues....if Kay would have been another woman....it would have been different. More threatening. Like Bettina said: I can't even be jealous.
You know, my hubbie left me (and the kids) for someone else. And of course I was angry and affraid, but now I see there's life after divorce, it's not the end of the world and you can't be happy with someone loving somebody else.


I am definitely into both Jack & Ennis and Marc & Kay.  It's just that sometimes when I look at the collateral damage they cause, it's sad.
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Offline morrobay

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Re: Free Fall - Freier Fall
« Reply #489 on: May 22, 2014, 08:09:27 am »
Hey guys, it's been really interesting reading your opinions on the movie, I read through this thread in a couple of days. I was really happy to find it because I first saw the movie back in like November, the DAY the first torrent with English subtitles came out. I have watched it so many times since, and have never found anywhere there was really in-depth conversation going on about it until now. There is so much I could reply to in these 49 pages but these were the things that stick in my mind now after finishing the thread.

Well this has been extremely long. And that's only a fraction of my thoughts about it. I'm just glad that there are people who are as interested in the movie as I am!

Hi - great to see you here, and glad you're getting in on the conversation.

You've brought up some excellent points, I look forward to a lot more discussions.

Mariska did the translations for us, it's been so helpful.  thanks again, Mariska.
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."