Author Topic: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance  (Read 48786 times)

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Note from Phillip: This was one of the first messages I wrote on this forum I started back in February of 2006.  It was just a few weeks after I saw the movie for the first time and spent weeks trying to sort through the rollercoaster ride of emotions I was feeling.  Many of you have found your way here for the first time after seeing the film on HBO.  Welcome to the BetterMost family.  All of the things going through my head back last winter prompted me to start this site not just to discuss the film, but also how we, and individuals, can finish the story in our own lives -- how we can use that which you are feeling right now as a catalyst for positive change in your own life.  Only rarely do films have the power to shake us the way this one did.  Please don't let what you are feeling get away from you.  A large number of our members joined this site just as you have, and they are still with us nearly a year later.  We've built new friendships, started new life projects, learned to stop missing opportunities for positive change, and are still having a lot of fun along the way.  We're building a community that will be here for years to come, and we're very happy to have you a part of it!  -- November 30, 2006

Brokeback Mountain is achieving mainstream acceptance and success in bringing two gay characters together in a way that connects with an audience far beyond the usual art house crowd.

For many people, that connection has packed an unexpected and powerful emotional wallop. Having allowed three weeks to pass since visiting Brokeback Mountain has given me some time to reflect on the stages I’ve been going through. If you’re still coping with an emotional overload, perhaps this will help provide some perspective and comfort, or at least bring a smile to your face.

The Five Stages of Brokeback Grief & Acceptance

1. Obsession & Isolation

These go hand and hand and occur most often just after seeing the film. You may find yourself taking a sick day (or more), withdraw from social events and friends, and instead dwell on the movie. That means lots of screen time in front of the computer Googing for as much information you can find about the film and hunting down forums in order to verify you have not just lost your mind. Most commonly heard phrase: “Just leave me alone right now.”

2. Denial: The Answer Isn’t Out There

You have now just spent more time on Brokeback Mountain than the characters did, looking for answers about what in the world is making you run this movie in your head over and over again. You have just watched the same 30 second clip someone posted online for the 10th time, ordered the soundtrack, read the short story, and are starting to write in forums just to make absolutely sure you have not just lost your mind because your mood isn’t getting any better just exploring the movie.

3. Questioning: Maybe The Answer Is Inside Me?

The ticket tearer at your local theater now calls you by your first name. Your friends, who haven’t seen or heard from you in what they call “ages” now greet you with “Dr. Livingston I presume?” The Amber Alert is called off. But now you are driving them crazy by constantly discussing Brokeback Mountain. And no, they don’t want to go to Old Navy with you to try out Denim outerwear.

Except no matter how much you try and make them understand, the truth about Brokeback is that either they “get it” or they don’t. And that’s the problem. you “get it” because you’re “living it.”

4. Realization & Reasoning: Your New Reality

Now you’ve realized what has happened. Something on the big screen has awakened something in yourself. It’s nothing that can be resolved with another viewing, regardless of how happy your local theater is to accept your $8 admission. Something about you has been brought to the surface. It could be your sexuality, your relationships, your accomplishments (or lack thereof), or just a sense that time might be running out for you to avoid the equivalent of My Dinner With Ennis, talking about the “couldas, wouldas, and shouldhas.”

5. The Two Roads: Reinvest in a New Reality or Distract Yourself Until You Can Forget About It

BetterMost is going to work best for people who are opting to reinvest in themselves. You don’t need to sit around and dwell on the negative things on screen reflecting the negative things in your life. The energy you invest in the depression and sadness for the characters is one thing, but do not allow it to earn interest in your own reality.

If there is something in your life that has gone for years without being dealt with, why not take the first step and deal with it starting today. You’ll be joining others who are starting right along with you. You were surprised to discover literally thousands of people just like you feeling many of the same things you’ve felt after Brokeback Mountain. So why not surprise yourself some more and let’s work together to make some positive changes.

The alternative, and I can sense this has begun to happen based on dwindling forum traffic on many sites devoted strictly to the movie itself, is to simply move on and put all of the feelings back in the box.

If you appreciated Annie Proulx’s story, why let that happen?
 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 07:32:43 pm by Phillip »
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Offline BBMGrandma

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2006, 05:13:09 am »
WOW....Philip....you've made my day/week as I read your post.  Lord have Mercy....I started thinking I was going whacko.  Let me introduce a little about myself...
I'm a 67 year old grandma.  I live in the SF bay area <very liberal of course> One of my favorite sayings is...'been there...done that'  I've had a very full and meaningful life and I'm settled quite peacefully in my only little loving world.  And THEN........along came BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN!!!

Every question that I've been asking myself....secretly....waaay down deep under...came CRASHING into my AURA!!!   I could almost hear glass breaking.  It was stunning...to say the very LEAST!!  I felt as though someone had reached down into my gut and was twisting and pulling....almost YANKING!!  It was physically painful. 

I fumbled for my car keys deep down in my purse....walked around in some kind of fog...waondering where I had parked my car.  Tears streaming down my eyes.....tissue covering my nose...my mouth.  Which key opens the door??  I was pathetically unraveled.  I finally found the right key after trying my HOUSE KEY!!   I'd never tried to open my Mustang with a house key....EVER!!! 

Drove home....on an old country road.  I usually "moooo" out my window at the cows.  WHAT COWS?   I've usually got the old AM radio tuned to 'oldies but goodies'  WHAT RADIO??  Total silence and sobbing tears.   

I've been a wreck ever since that first day.  I've ONLY seen the movie three times so far...BUT....I'm sure I'll go back again and again.  Of course I've read the book....it's pages are getting all wrinkly from tears.  I'm TORTURING myself with the CD....over and over again it plays.  I just leave it on repeat now.  I know every word to every song.  I search forum after forum looking for MORE pics and videos of my sweet Ennis and my darling Jack.  Pictures of the two of them....magnets holding em onto the frig. 

My GOD....I realized....that I am Ennis and Jack's...mother that they never had.  I want to wrap a warm blankie around both of them....and keep them safe and secure.  I want to whisper into Ennis' ear and say to him..."Don't be afraid sweetie....it's alright to love.."  I want to brush my hand across Jack's face and assure him that "Ennis loves you honey....he just doesn't understand the love....."   "He doesn't know what to DO with his love for you....."  I want to make hot chocolate for them with marshmellows.....!!  I LOVE these two men....from the bottom of my heart.  whew!!! 

WHY is this goin on?  After reading your post...Philip....I'm closer to understanding.  Thanks youi SOOO much!! 

Here I go again.....crying my eyes out.  If I can see I'll wind this up.  I'll post again as soon as I 'get it together' here. 

BBM Grandma   <night all> 

"If we never dream....we'll never have a dream come true"   (me...myself...and I)

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2006, 12:57:03 am »
WOW....Philip....you've made my day/week as I read your post.  Lord have Mercy....I started thinking I was going whacko.  Let me introduce a little about myself...
I'm a 67 year old grandma.  I live in the SF bay area <very liberal of course> One of my favorite sayings is...'been there...done that'  I've had a very full and meaningful life and I'm settled quite peacefully in my only little loving world.  And THEN........along came BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN!!!

Welcome to the little family of members here.  No you have not gone nuts at all.  It's interesting to see people who are leading content lives also getting torn up by this film.  I confess I have not been super content in my own, and have been exploring a way out of the box I've been in for a year or two.

Quote
Every question that I've been asking myself....secretly....waaay down deep under...came CRASHING into my AURA!!!   I could almost hear glass breaking.  It was stunning...to say the very LEAST!!  I felt as though someone had reached down into my gut and was twisting and pulling....almost YANKING!!  It was physically painful. 

I fumbled for my car keys deep down in my purse....walked around in some kind of fog...waondering where I had parked my car.  Tears streaming down my eyes.....tissue covering my nose...my mouth.  Which key opens the door??  I was pathetically unraveled.  I finally found the right key after trying my HOUSE KEY!!   I'd never tried to open my Mustang with a house key....EVER!!! 

Drove home....on an old country road.  I usually "moooo" out my window at the cows.  WHAT COWS?   I've usually got the old AM radio tuned to 'oldies but goodies'  WHAT RADIO??  Total silence and sobbing tears.

I had my cousin, close friend and partner John with me in the car on the way home.  We were laughing along with Stephanie Miller on a podcast on the way to the movie (she's a liberal talk radio host heard on several liberal talk stations around the States), but that radio didn't go on at all on the way home.  We discussed the movie in fits and starts, and after I dropped my cousin off, it was just John and I and we managed some discussion about the movie along the lines of "are you happy with the way things are."  Well, of course not, but my own fumbling for things would have to wait until the next morning when it all came apart.

My country roads came that Friday on a road trip down to Canandaigua, a small city about 30 minutes from Rochester, NY.  Lots of hills and wide open fields.  Rural living of sorts, and there is the odd cow and horse as well.

Quote
I've been a wreck ever since that first day.  I've ONLY seen the movie three times so far...BUT....I'm sure I'll go back again and again.  Of course I've read the book....it's pages are getting all wrinkly from tears.  I'm TORTURING myself with the CD....over and over again it plays.  I just leave it on repeat now.  I know every word to every song.  I search forum after forum looking for MORE pics and videos of my sweet Ennis and my darling Jack.  Pictures of the two of them....magnets holding em onto the frig. 

My GOD....I realized....that I am Ennis and Jack's...mother that they never had.  I want to wrap a warm blankie around both of them....and keep them safe and secure.  I want to whisper into Ennis' ear and say to him..."Don't be afraid sweetie....it's alright to love.."  I want to brush my hand across Jack's face and assure him that "Ennis loves you honey....he just doesn't understand the love....."   "He doesn't know what to DO with his love for you....."  I want to make hot chocolate for them with marshmellows.....!!  I LOVE these two men....from the bottom of my heart.  whew!!!

I can understand the feelings you are experiencing completely.  I have found that since I started directing my energy into making some changes, such as just launching this site, even though it soaks Brokeback Mountain, it's really stopping the obsession with the movie itself, and in a positive way.  I am now motivated and excited by the possibilities open to me right now.  I realize the characters in the film aren't literally real people, but you and I are, as are the other 25 people who made it here in week one.  So we can actually live the dream of comforting and supporting one another, albeit electronically, and learn from each other.

Perhaps for you, there might be a way of getting involved on a local level in some support group which would actually let you comfort and support people, gay or straight, who don't receive the comfort and support from their own parents.  Maybe that's a way to live the dream in your own life.

I have been kicking around the idea of putting together a collection of music which is true to the theme of the score from the movie.  Gustavo Santaolalla's score would probably qualify as a category within the "new age" music genre, and I've located several artists whose sound isn't far off from his own.  I was spending time listening to some music at Live365 and saw that configuring a legal, online streaming radio service is a possibility, starting at around $12 a month for 25 listeners.  I could probably do something like that if enough people were interested, and load it with a regularly changing selection of music from the soundtrack and music that evokes the western wide open spaces the movie suggests.  I am much more of a "score" man than just hunting down country & western tunes with lyrics that could apply to the movie too, but anything is possible.  The only downside to Live365 is there is a monthly cost, there are ads they insert to intrude on the experience, and you can't have more than three selections from a single album during an hour.

Something for us to discuss here.  If it launches, people play it and hopefully write the kind of profound message you have.   :)  Thanks so much for sharing it here.
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Scott6373

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2006, 04:10:50 pm »
Well Phillip I have made it through the BBM fever.  I survived and even managed to learn a thing or two.  What I haven't heard anyone ever really explain is why people (gay specifically), are so traumatized by this film.  I've hmeard a lot of platitudes, but no real organic reason.

Offline BBMGrandma

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2006, 05:30:49 pm »
Well Phillip I have made it through the BBM fever.  I survived and even managed to learn a thing or two.  What I haven't heard anyone ever really explain is why people (gay specifically), are so traumatized by this film.  I've hmeard a lot of platitudes, but no real organic reason.

Oh Scott...I WISH there were some organic reason for these feelings we're experiencing.  I would think that each of us has their individual demons/joys/questions that we haven't reconciled in our own hearts.  As I look back on my own very heterosexual life...I feel REGRET about  things I haven't done...and happiness at those things I HAVE done...!!

 I've heard so many actors say....about the parts that they have portrayed...that it's never quite "right" in their own eyes.  It may be a MASTERPIECE to the public...but to the actors it's frought with errors and regrets.  Perhaps this gives us a little insight into our own feelings about this story? It is so inundated with parallels to life itself.   I'm not sure but I DO know....it's leading me down a new path and it's going to be a NEW bright path....even at my age.  <67> 

When I first saw this film...I felt despair and such tremendous loss.  It was paralleling the great losses I've had in my own life.  Family....friends...left this earth waaay too soon.  But I stuffed all this way deep down and have always been the 'cheery' one that everyone else called for a 'boost up'.  I've had a tremendous revelation...It just happened last night as I sat here d/l'ing and crying through video after video last night.  I realized that "I" had not reached out to anyone when "I" felt down and sad.  Just kept smilin!!   

It's time I got my 'chit' out on the table and deal with it!!  Thank you Philip....I DO need to wrap that blankie around those who need it and I need to let THEM wrap it around me....when "I" need it!!! 

I've called a good counselor to help me work these things out.  I'm going to stop 'hermiting' and venture back out into the world.  It may be cold and cruel at times....but I think if we dig down deeper we'll all find a TRULY loving world out there.  With people like US around...how can it NOT be...huh?   ;)

See...I even feel like using 'smiley's again!! 

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Bye for now.....Nancy

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Offline emjayen

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2006, 09:03:14 pm »
Phillip, you're starting to scare me.  I've been through those first 4 stages, and started on the "distract yourself 'til you can forget about it" part of stage 5.  But I totally want to make the rest of my journey on earth enjoyable, so I choose to "re-invest in a new reality".
I can't stand it... I want to fix it!

Offline juneaux

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2006, 09:21:39 pm »
This is great~ I wish I'd had known about these stages while I was in the first one!  The last time I saw Brokeback was with my partner on Valentine's Day.  I truly believe holding his hand during the last 20 minutes helped me want to get to "work" on myself ~stage 5.  His first viewing didn't affect him nearly as much as mine did.  (Of course I really didn't expect it to.  I was just thankful that he went.)  I'm just glad that there are others out there that were moved by this movie to the point of obsession and that I can communicate with them.  Thanks, Phillip, for bringing us together. 
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Offline Drew Kerrigan

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2006, 03:49:18 am »
I have a gal pal who 'came out' to me after we watched the film in silverscreen. She asked me if I had doubts then of her being a lesbian and all that and I said: "I never suspected my dear" (honest to goodness!). The good part of this is I wasn't shocked or anything. I was just happy that she confided with me, I really appreciated it. I think only me and her mother (since her hghschool days) knows. This didn't change our friendship. She will remain to be a close friend and I will accept her as she is. :)
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lhundol

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2006, 06:19:41 am »
Hi everybody, Im from the Netherlands so my English writing can be a bit bad sometimes, hope you dont have any problems with that :)

Im defenitly in stage 1, and Im glad that I found this forum! Yes while I was searching on the internet (That means lots of screen time in front of the computer Googing for as much information you can find about the film and hunting down forums in order to verify you have not just lost your mind.) hahahaha! Its the first thing I did when I woke up this morning!

I life in a  town close to Amsterdam, as you all know Amsterdam has a big gayscene. A very close friend of mine came out last year when I just met hem. We go to clubs a lot in Amsterdam ( Im a 18 year old girl and Im not gay). The first thing I did when I left the movie is sent my friend a text message telling him I was thinking about him and that we should be so happy about livving in Holland where gays are so excepted!

After that I went to a bar with a friend who I had seen the movie with, and we were just standing there, being very depressed, rethinking the movie and drinking Martini's on high speed. While everybody else was having fun dancing. Just leave us alone! Thats when we decieded we had to go home early and take some quit time to think about the movie. I had a short night without much sleep!

Hope Ill get to fase 5 very soon!

Offline iristarr

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2006, 04:28:59 am »
Some great posts here, Phillip.  Thanks for being so supportive of my presence on this site.  I'm still floundering about trying to learn how to use all the bells and whistles, but have made contact with BBMGrandma (hey, that's my name too!" and the Ladies Room, and look forward to a long, fruitful, healing relationship here.
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Offline Peter John Shields

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2006, 09:03:19 pm »
Hello all,

I am a big fan of folk singer Judy Collins.  She happens to be performing in my home town in April and so I was doing a bit of research on her.  I don't think I will be able to go to the concert though as the tickets are a bit expensive

However I have copied the following over from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Collins

Following the 1992 death of her son Clark Taylor at age 33 after a long bout with depression and substance abuse, she has also become a strong advocate of suicide prevention. Her 2003 book, Sanity & Grace, chronicles her recovery from her son's suicide and attempts to provide some comfort and guidance to other families dealing with the loss of a loved one to suicide. She describes the "Seven T's" as a means for going through this process of recovery: Truth, Therapy, Trust, Try, Treat, Treasure, and Thrive. The Truth is that there should be no guilt in suicide; Therapy helps people express their emotions and seek grief counseling; Trust is the effort to believe that one can make it through the loss and keep a belief in life and in the future; Try means to stay away from drugs and alcohol or any excess--including overeating--as a means to deal with the loss and pain; Treat means to take care of the mind, body, and spirit with exercise and meditation; Treasure means to keep the memory of the moments to be treasured, and for this Collins recommends writing and keeping a journal; and Thrive means to be positive, hopeful, open to love and others, and continuing to know that you can rebuild your life on a basis of hope.

I thought that these stages might be helpful for us too - dealing with the grief of Brokback.  I need to concentrate on the try one - as I definately use food as a comfort a lot and then I like the idea of Treat too - as I definately need to look after myself more.

But then I thought about going for a jog this morning and have I done it?? No

Thanks Phillip for your stages of grief - I have found that very informative - as they say knowledge is power,

Stripey
Cheerio,
Peter

retropian

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2006, 03:48:13 am »
That's a great and insightful post Phillip.
This movie has profundly affected me, and many others. I hope we can all move forward to better selves and not back or just remain in stasis.

Offline Fla_Tim

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2006, 09:28:41 am »
Hello all,

I am a big fan of folk singer Judy Collins.  She happens to be performing in my home town in April and so I was doing a bit of research on her.  I don't think I will be able to go to the concert though as the tickets are a bit expensive

However I have copied the following over from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Collins

Following the 1992 death of her son Clark Taylor at age 33 after a long bout with depression and substance abuse, she has also become a strong advocate of suicide prevention. Her 2003 book, Sanity & Grace, chronicles her recovery from her son's suicide and attempts to provide some comfort and guidance to other families dealing with the loss of a loved one to suicide. She describes the "Seven T's" as a means for going through this process of recovery: Truth, Therapy, Trust, Try, Treat, Treasure, and Thrive. The Truth is that there should be no guilt in suicide; Therapy helps people express their emotions and seek grief counseling; Trust is the effort to believe that one can make it through the loss and keep a belief in life and in the future; Try means to stay away from drugs and alcohol or any excess--including overeating--as a means to deal with the loss and pain; Treat means to take care of the mind, body, and spirit with exercise and meditation; Treasure means to keep the memory of the moments to be treasured, and for this Collins recommends writing and keeping a journal; and Thrive means to be positive, hopeful, open to love and others, and continuing to know that you can rebuild your life on a basis of hope.

I thought that these stages might be helpful for us too - dealing with the grief of Brokback.  I need to concentrate on the try one - as I definately use food as a comfort a lot and then I like the idea of Treat too - as I definately need to look after myself more.

But then I thought about going for a jog this morning and have I done it?? No

Thanks Phillip for your stages of grief - I have found that very informative - as they say knowledge is power,

Stripey

Thank you so much for posting that Stripey, it really spoke to me. I was a latecomer to seeing the movie, but like many of the people here it really tore me up.

I'd been through a really rough patch with work and life in general the last few months and oddly enough picked probably the toughest day of all to see Brokeback. It took my focus off of my own woes initially but turned the spotlight right back on them in short order. As you said in your post about Judy Collins, I've realized that I have to take much better care of myself for my physical and mental well being, and live a life of no regrets.

One one hand I've dealt with the personal stuff, came to terms with my sexual orientation in my 20s and have been in a wonderful relationship for 12 years, but for the least few I've been stuffing my feelings about my work and particularly the last 6 months. But this experience with our movie has made me reexamine this part of my life. I'm not sure where I'm going with it but I've started to examine it rather than try to ignore it.

Thursday night I saw the film for the second time, I really wanted to see it again while it was at the theater. It was better for me in a lot of ways, perhaps because I knew the ending I didn't feel as though I'd been zapped with a stun gun.

So many details sunk in and the scenery HAS to be seen on a big screen. Ennis came to life for me much more than he did the first time, his emotions are so much more subtle but they are there.

The thing that touched me the most the second time was the last scene with his daughter; when he decided to attend the wedding it seemed as though he made a concious decision to embrace people that matter to him while he can, a lesson he learned the hardest way possible, but a lesson we all need to learn and relearn sometimes.

Thanks again for your post.

Offline Toast

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2006, 11:22:51 pm »
WOW
i think I have reached stage 5
I watched the movie on my own tv - downloaded
and I havent shared it yet
but I did go through all the above stages
Since I am already off on disability - lung problem, I did nont have to take days off work, but I did slump for a while

Just this week I was at work on a small computer support job and while I was tinkering with the computer in the warehouse, the new shipment of movie posters came in.  Since the store sells few movies, the posters are immediatley dumped.
I overheard the staff listing the movies for which they received posters.
As soon as I heard Brokeback mentioned, I also heard myself saying I'll take the Brokeback poster.
I would never have made that request last year.
I would never have asked for a gay poster before.
But now I will.
I think it was a coming out statement that I made, to non friends.
Thanks for this thread
and Ang, thanks for making this movie so perfectly.
from a perfect story by Annie Proulx.
Annie has a summer home about 30 km from me and I plan to try and meet her next summer.
She might be full of "piss and vinegar" but she is one mean writer.


Offline Peter John Shields

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2006, 11:42:45 pm »
Hiya Toast,
That is great - I think that those events that seem little at the time (like asking for the poster) can actually stand for much more, such as stage 5.  Good on you.  Bye the way I think those coming out moments can be real hard - but at least you are putting yourself out there.

For me I recently audiitioned for a play - which I would normally never have done.  I tried not to think about it too much - just did it because I wanted to...and then I got a real pleasant surprise - I really enjoyed myself,

Peter
Cheerio,
Peter

Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2006, 10:44:24 pm »
I am not quite sure what stage I'm in. I still obsess over this movie, contemplate it constantly, and feel stabs of sorrow for the characters, reawakened by the soundtrack or even something unrelated to Brokeback, like other films or songs.

I am glad to be celebrating this movie but sometimes it's too much to handle. At least it's not as hard as when I first saw the movie; that was bad...  :'(
If you'd just realize what I just realized then we'd be perfect for each other and we'd never have to wonder if we missed out on each other now
We missed out on each other now


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Offline juneaux

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2006, 11:57:14 pm »
Since purchasing the DVD I'm afraid I'm back in Stage One~ AGAIN.
Truth never damages a cause that is just.
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Offline twistedude

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2006, 03:48:05 am »
Guess almost everyone has heard my tale of woe---I've seen (at least the first 20 minutes of) 5 DIFFERENT DVDs--and they all SUCK (as in: welcome to the...). All are too dark, generally, but the first tent scene is invisable, except for Jack's shirt, when he takes his jacket off, and--you get a VERY GENERAL idea of what's going on, but not why, how, how the participants feel about it, or anything else especially interesting.

Having tried the three i own (I also rented two--no better) on my own medium priced stuff, I took them, by invitation, to the house of a friend, who has the best equipment in the world.

Aside from the fact that under the blackness, there is MUD--
I got the distinct impression that my friend Britt took an instant dislike to Jack, and in fact (during the 20 minutes he watched of the film before the tent scene--after which, after watching it 3 times, he refused to watch ANY MORE of the movie), he responded to something Jack said in a nasty voice, ending in "baby." (Perhaps he has led a more interesting sex life than I thought, or, perhaps, a less interesting sex life).

I really feel I should make some attempt to convince Britt that Jack is not a sexual preditor...but I don't know where to start...without a decent film. I don't want to get angry with him...

I am quite at peace with my own obsession.  Except with some...friends...

« Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 03:58:09 pm by julie01 »
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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2006, 03:10:40 pm »
I cannot say that I have had to go through any of this as far as Brokeback Mountain is concerned.

I have, however gone through steps of Grief and Bereavement, followed by Acceptance, in regard to the loss of my late partner/husband Eldred "Ed' Pursell. And, that only worked because I had professional help to guide me through the steps, too.

I wonder sometimes if what some people claim is/was caused by seeing the Brokeback Mountain movie might be related to something hidden in their subconscious and they have forgotten about it.

I have gone through times where I felt sad for no reason and wondered why. But, when I looked at the date on the calendar, my memory was jogged and then the date reminded me that particular day was an anniversary of what might have been a sad or a happy day in my life years ago. It was a "sad" memory because of the feeling to remember the happy times.

That's like Ennis Del Mar in the book's published "prologue" in the following quote:

Quote
The stale coffee is boiling up but he catches it before it goes over the side, pours it into a stained cup and blows on the black liquid, lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong. The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies, leaves a temporary silence.

Ennis had had a good dream about Jack Twist which he remembered having when he got early that morning.

Offline David

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2006, 06:18:04 pm »
Looking over the different folks who have posted on this thread has made me notice something.   Alot of the folks are not regular posters.   ie: low numbers.    Does this mean they came here looking for resolution and found it?  or perhaps they didn't.

I know the Oscars are way behind us and the DVD is on most of our tables.  But I think alot of us are still here because we have formed some kind of extended group therapy.
Lord knows, misery loves company!   LOL.   But seriously.  We all seem to have embraced these characters.   If you can't shake them, you might as well embrace them.

Offline twistedude

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2006, 01:12:04 pm »
Update: I got my Toshiba laptop fixed, and Brokeback now plays like an angel; I've written abiut 20,000 woirds of fanfiction, which is even geting read, and have a friend over on Dave Cullen who seems completely willing to give me free rides to any showing of Brokeback, and is funny and brilliant as well.

Otherwise, see Leslie Nicoll's (lNicoll)post on "Chez Tremblay," "I had a life, once..."

Sometime, this has to end....maybe I'll start writing about...me. Or my grabdfather.   Or my grandchildrern.
"We're each of us alone, to be sure. What can you do but hold your hand out in the dark?" --"Nine Lives," by Ursula K. Le Guin, from The Wind's Twelve Quarters

Offline beeple

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2006, 07:30:57 pm »
 Alot of the folks are not regular posters.   ie: low numbers.    Does this mean they came here looking for resolution and found it? 

you know the feeling you get when you come late to a party and all the food is gone and everyone has either run off, paired off or passed out?

i only watched this movie a little while ago..and i must admit that i'm a little sad that i've missed most of the heated discussions there seem to have been when the movie was still on the big screen..so yes i've come looking for resolution..have i found it? that is yet to be seen...

philip, if i am not mistaken, you are the big cahuna here..thank you for bm.net! and what you've written..it so has captured exactly the experience that i've had..and i am both glad and relieved that it seems to have been something shared by many!

The Five Stages of Brokeback Grief & Acceptance

1. Obsession & Isolation
...Most commonly heard phrase: “Just leave me alone right now.”

it was such a personal grief..the feeling of having lost something myself..and not another soul could understand it..

Quote

2. Denial: The Answer Isn’t Out There
...are starting to write in forums just to make absolutely sure you have not just lost your mind
:)

Quote
3. Questioning: Maybe The Answer Is Inside Me?
The ticket tearer at your local theater now calls you by your first name...But now you are driving them crazy by constantly discussing Brokeback Mountain...Except no matter how much you try and make them understand, the truth about Brokeback is that either they “get it” or they don’t. And that’s the problem. you “get it” because you’re “living it.”

*sniff* did not get to see this in theaters...but perhaps on Monday!  i am excited  :D
..and most people i know don't get it..or won't bother to try..and "living it" sucks when you are doing it by yourself...

Quote
4. Realization & Reasoning: Your New Reality
Now you’ve realized what has happened. Something on the big screen has awakened something in yourself...“couldas, wouldas, and shouldhas.”

definitely a lot of those to think about lately..  :-\

Quote
5. The Two Roads: Reinvest in a New Reality or Distract Yourself Until You Can Forget About It
...So why not surprise yourself some more and let’s work together to make some positive changes...
okay!

Quote
The alternative, and I can sense this has begun to happen based on dwindling forum traffic on many sites devoted strictly to the movie itself, is to simply move on and put all of the feelings back in the box...
If you appreciated Annie Proulx’s story, why let that happen?

because it's scary...because maybe we all have a little of ennis inside of us that won't let us go..


thanks very much for this post..yes, it really did help with my perspective and a little smile in deed! :)




« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 07:36:19 pm by beeple »

Offline Lynne

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2006, 12:21:53 am »
This thread deserves new life.
-Lynne
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2006, 07:15:03 pm »
Yes it does... I wrote the original article just a few weeks after seeing Brokeback Mountain for the first time.  It took me a few weeks to actually piece together what in the world I was feeling, and to identify the different stages of the "process" of coping with the film.

Of course, everyone's reaction to the film will be different.  But this site was created not just as a place to endlessly discuss the film itself, but rather to use all of the energy and emotion the film provoked within us to finish the story in our own lives.  To use it as a catalyst for change, so that you won't be sitting around 20 years from now regretting things you were either too afraid to try or felt you lacked the confidence to make a success.  And that can be anything in your life, not just coming to terms with sexual orientation.

The risks of not taking the first steps towards fulfilling ones' life goals were illustrated in such a devastating way while Ennis clutched Jack's coat, realizing only then what could have been if he only had taken the chance.

Our community here is made up of people who are all going through "the process of change," and we're here to encourage, listen, and help you on your journey forward in anyway we can.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2006, 11:53:15 pm »
Brokeback Mountain is achieving mainstream acceptance and success in bringing two gay characters together in a way that connects with an audience far beyond the usual art house crowd.

For many people, that connection has packed an unexpected and powerful emotional wallop. Having allowed three weeks to pass since visiting Brokeback Mountain has given me some time to reflect on the stages I’ve been going through. If you’re still coping with an emotional overload, perhaps this will help provide some perspective and comfort, or at least bring a smile to your face.

The Five Stages of Brokeback Grief & Acceptance

1. Obsession & Isolation

These go hand and hand and occur most often just after seeing the film. You may find yourself taking a sick day (or more), withdraw from social events and friends, and instead dwell on the movie. That means lots of screen time in front of the computer Googing for as much information you can find about the film and hunting down forums in order to verify you have not just lost your mind. Most commonly heard phrase: “Just leave me alone right now.”

2. Denial: The Answer Isn’t Out There

You have now just spent more time on Brokeback Mountain than the characters did, looking for answers about what in the world is making you run this movie in your head over and over again. You have just watched the same 30 second clip someone posted online for the 10th time, ordered the soundtrack, read the short story, and are starting to write in forums just to make absolutely sure you have not just lost your mind because your mood isn’t getting any better just exploring the movie.

3. Questioning: Maybe The Answer Is Inside Me?

The ticket tearer at your local theater now calls you by your first name. Your friends, who haven’t seen or heard from you in what they call “ages” now greet you with “Dr. Livingston I presume?” The Amber Alert is called off. But now you are driving them crazy by constantly discussing Brokeback Mountain. And no, they don’t want to go to Old Navy with you to try out Denim outerwear.

Except no matter how much you try and make them understand, the truth about Brokeback is that either they “get it” or they don’t. And that’s the problem. you “get it” because you’re “living it.”

4. Realization & Reasoning: Your New Reality

Now you’ve realized what has happened. Something on the big screen has awakened something in yourself. It’s nothing that can be resolved with another viewing, regardless of how happy your local theater is to accept your $8 admission. Something about you has been brought to the surface. It could be your sexuality, your relationships, your accomplishments (or lack thereof), or just a sense that time might be running out for you to avoid the equivalent of My Dinner With Ennis, talking about the “couldas, wouldas, and shouldhas.”

5. The Two Roads: Reinvest in a New Reality or Distract Yourself Until You Can Forget About It

BetterMost is going to work best for people who are opting to reinvest in themselves. You don’t need to sit around and dwell on the negative things on screen reflecting the negative things in your life. The energy you invest in the depression and sadness for the characters is one thing, but do not allow it to earn interest in your own reality.

If there is something in your life that has gone for years without being dealt with, why not take the first step and deal with it starting today. You’ll be joining others who are starting right along with you. You were surprised to discover literally thousands of people just like you feeling many of the same things you’ve felt after Brokeback Mountain. So why not surprise yourself some more and let’s work together to make some positive changes.

The alternative, and I can sense this has begun to happen based on dwindling forum traffic on many sites devoted strictly to the movie itself, is to simply move on and put all of the feelings back in the box.

If you appreciated Annie Proulx’s story, why let that happen?
 


I hope you dont mind that I have inserted the entire initial post that you did here Phillip.....it will make it easier maybe for the newcomers to find it, without scrolling down, like I have just done....

Dont know how I missed this thread, but glad now that I have read it.....you certainly have combined all the feelings, that we all have in common.....I would be very surprised if anyone in this forum, has not felt at least one, and most probably have felt all of what you describe here.

As it was written way back in February, you were then obviously unaware, that these feelings were going to go on and on......I know with me, when I sit down and watch the movie again, for the umpteenth time, it all starts all over again....the difference from experiencing it now, compared to the first time, is that I too thought that I was "the only one" to feel that way, and even that I might be a little "crazy".......

Now I let the feelings take over without any fear, without any emabarrasment, without any wondering "why"......I know why it happens, I like why it happens and I have no doubt it will always happen....

I hope any newcomers to the board, get some satisfaction and explanation from your words....
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline calenloss

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 05:32:41 pm »
There's a movement being born out of this movie - I love it!

I'm still in Stage 1 - absorbing every little piece of information I can get about this movie, forcing myself to think about various scenes, stills & words from the film just to experience the pain again because it's a good pain. It makes me feel like a real person. My generation is one ill with apathy & self-concern. This film makes me feel *real* emotions and emotions I can begin to identofy with.

Am I the only one who not only feels like he has lived the life of every one of those characters, but wants to, in a weird way, experience something like that? The love J&E had, though traumatic & ultimately tragic, was the best kind of love. The desperate kind, the one that when it's satisifed is like going to Eden & staying there for just the smallest while. I hope one day to have a memory like the embrace at the campfire, but with the luck to have held onto the one that produced it.

My flatmates will shoot me if I force them to watch yet another depressing montage from youtube or even mention Jake Gyllenhaal's name ever again. Damned shame!

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2006, 05:05:40 pm »
Am I the only one who not only feels like he has lived the life of every one of those characters, but wants to, in a weird way, experience something like that? The love J&E had, though traumatic & ultimately tragic, was the best kind of love. The desperate kind, the one that when it's satisifed is like going to Eden & staying there for just the smallest while. I hope one day to have a memory like the embrace at the campfire, but with the luck to have held onto the one that produced it.

My flatmates will shoot me if I force them to watch yet another depressing montage from youtube or even mention Jake Gyllenhaal's name ever again. Damned shame!

I think that's true for a lot of us as well.  I saw time on Brokeback as back to nature where distractions were few and one was forced into contemplating the company they kept because there was little else around to contemplate.  The wide open spaces, the quiet, the work outdoors, and the nights without books or television are often alien to most of us with so many distractions to choose from.

Anytime, even now, I drive into the countryside I immediately feel I am there, even though there aren't any mountains near me.  And yes, the emotional intensity of what is laid before us on screen is something I think a lot of us would like to have -- the passion of the moments spent together.  Of course, less emphasized were the months and months I'm sure both felt deep loneliness and sadness when they were apart, especially for Jack.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2006, 01:20:25 am »
What a great thread.  Thanks for highlighting it!
cheers
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Offline CarlaMom2

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2006, 12:17:07 pm »
I love this thread!  New here and what you said was so true!  I thought I was wierd for not being able to get this movie out of my head.  I was looking whatever I could find online and then I found you all!! :)

Offline JT

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2006, 01:12:35 am »
I love this thread too.  What I find weird is that I tend to jump back and forth among those stages, and sometimes I have more than one stages at the same time.  This movie is always in my head still, but I tend to accept that.  It consumes me but yet I can still function normally, I think.

Offline CarlaMom2

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2006, 08:36:44 am »
JT  You are not alone.  I guess we'll both be wierd together  ;)

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2006, 02:29:41 pm »
I still think about this story EVERY day and its been 10 months.  Still get choked up when I think of the guys and their tragedy. 

Karen

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2006, 02:33:11 pm »
Karen, next October, I'll be celebrating 10 YEARS of Brokeholism!! There ain't no reins on this one!

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline JT

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2006, 01:20:13 pm »
JT  You are not alone.  I guess we'll both be wierd together  ;)

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone, Carla.  It's good to be weird.

Last night I watched Brokeback Mountain again and try to compare it with "Titanic" on TBS the previous night.  There's no comparison.  "Titanic" was a good movie and got me a little sad for it's Jack (and what's her name?), but nothing hits me like BBM.  And yes, the tears flow again, for our Jack (and Ennis) of course.

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2006, 06:26:31 pm »
Last night I watched Brokeback Mountain again and try to compare it with "Titanic" on TBS the previous night.  There's no comparison.  "Titanic" was a good movie and got me a little sad for it's Jack (and what's her name?), but nothing hits me like BBM.  And yes, the tears flow again, for our Jack (and Ennis) of course.

A light hearted (albeit politically incorrect) review of Titanic from Shirley Q: http://www.phillipdampier.net/downloads/Titanic.mp3
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Offline Lynne

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2006, 04:50:38 am »
Well, I'm glad I'm not alone, Carla.  It's good to be weird.

Last night I watched Brokeback Mountain again and try to compare it with "Titanic" on TBS the previous night.  There's no comparison.  "Titanic" was a good movie and got me a little sad for it's Jack (and what's her name?), but nothing hits me like BBM.  And yes, the tears flow again, for our Jack (and Ennis) of course.

Carla/JT - y'all defiinitely not alone in this obsession, grief, journey.  We all want to be here to support each other.  Interestingly, I just saw Titanic again w/Mom because it was on and she'd never seen it.  No comparison at all really.  Titanic seemed to have such a heavy hand for manipulating your emotions - I felt more aggravation than sympathy.

And maybe that is the difference - Ang Lee manipulates our feelings, certainly, but it's so subtle we don't realize it - that 'light hand' that I've heard associated with him.  Both are epic tragedies but with BBM we can empathize, see ourselves in Jack and Ennis, whereas I don't feel any connection w/Jack and Rose.

Well, about stages of griief and acceptance, I bouce back and forth, but the general direction seems toward moving forward and healing.  Much credit goes to the community of support here, from which I draw strength.

Best,
Lynne
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Offline Faye92

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2006, 02:12:13 pm »
Hi everyone.
I am still trying to sort through how BBM impacted me. I am a 46 year old heterosexual woman who has been in waaaaay too many relationships that did not work out for whatever reason. There are many regrets that I have and I am still dealing with the what if's. I understood where Nancy was coming from as I read her comments earlier. I suppose most people see this film as dealing with homophobia in a small town, but to me, it is so much much more than that. Love is love whether it exists between 2 men, 2 women or a male and a female. It makes no difference and I am still disappointed in the fact that Ennis and Jack did not take that chance. They lost out on the possibility of sheer happiness for the sake of folk. 
I don't know what stage I am at right now. A liltte confused  ??? and ever searching I suppose!!!  :)

Faye


Offline Lynne

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2006, 02:44:10 pm »
Hey Faye,

Welcome to BetterMost - I'm glad you saw Nancy's earlier posts - they spoke to me the first time I read them too .  Take your time sorting through your feelings since BBM, confused and searching now and whatever comes;  you're here among friends, so you're in the right place to do it.  We are all still right there with you at one stage or another.

Quote
I suppose most people see this film as dealing with homophobia in a small town, but to me, it is so much much more than that. Love is love whether it exists between 2 men, 2 women or a male and a female. It makes no difference and I am still disappointed in the fact that Ennis and Jack did not take that chance. They lost out on the possibility of sheer happiness for the sake of folk.

On one level the film is about homophobia - how fear of admitting who he was to himself prevented Ennis from having a happy life, but there are so many layers upon layers to be explored.

One layer for me was to look at who I was when I was 19 and compare my 19-year-old hopes and dreams with the life I am living at 38.  Which paths were right and which led me away from being who I want to be?  I have a few answers - not all by any means - and still more questions.  But I am loving exploring them - finally facing some of the things I can't stand and trying to 'fix' them.

Welcome to the journey, Faye!
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline JT

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2006, 03:23:50 pm »
I love being with this crowd.  No matter who we are, we all found common ground in this movie.  The messenger of love in the movie maybe two men, but what they felt was very universal. 

Lynn, Faye, we're basically taking this journey together.  Hope you folks will find your path because I'm still searching for mine all these time, and yes, I enjoy exploring them too.

Offline Katie77

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2006, 06:49:24 pm »
Here is an essay written by Leslie (Maine Writer) back in January....for all the new Brokies here, I'm sure you will find it quite amazing..........

A New Clinical Entity: Brokeback Fever
By: Leslie H. Nicoll

   Forget Avian Flu. There’s a new disease sweeping the land, with the potential to infect millions of people and wreak havoc on the US economy through thousands of hours of lost worker productivity. It’s called Brokeback Fever.

   Brokeback Fever was first identified in 1997 when the short story, “Brokeback Mountain,” by author E. Annie Proulx, was published in The New Yorker. However, due to limited distribution and a small reading audience, the disease was kept in check. Now, with the release of the movie and its award winning status (Venice Film Festival, Critics Circle, Golden Globes, 8 Academy Award nominations, and numerous other accolades) it is likely that the disease will reach epidemic proportions in US and potentially, throughout the world.

   Epidemiologic study has identified the zero case as Diana Ossana, co-author (with Larry McMurtry) of the screenplay for the film. A self-described insomniac, Ossana read the story one sleepless night and in her words, “was weeping by the end, deep gut wrenching sobs.” This, in fact, is a classic symptom of Brokeback Fever.

   Ossana, in an effort to assuage her symptoms, optioned the story and wrote the screenplay with McMurtry. Through many long years, the story was always in the front of her mind. It is not known if release of the film has resolved Ossana’s illness. She has chosen not to publicly reveal that information.

   Brokeback Fever can be contracted in a variety of ways. Most common is reading the short story or seeing the movie. However, the illness has also been identified in people who have read about the movie, through reviews or interviews with those involved in its production, but have not yet seen the film. This latter form of infection has come about through the limited release strategy of the film’s distributor, Focus Features. It appears that indirect infection is no less virulent than the direct form of the disease.

   Symptoms include obsessive thinking about the movie/story, disturbed sleep patterns, weeping/sobbing, and a need to discuss it endlessly with family, friends, and co-workers. Some have reported physical symptoms, including aching joints, throbbing head, and a mild depression that can last for hours or days. Additional symptoms that have been identified include obsessive reading about the movie (reviews, interviews, etc), listening to the soundtrack repeatedly, and a desire to write fan letters to authors Proulx, Ossana, and McMurtry, director Ang Lee, and stars Heath Ledger, Jake Gyllenhaal, Michelle Williams, and Anne Hathaway.

   It appears that Brokeback Fever afflicts men and women equally. It also appears to cut across all age groups. While some speculated that the subject matter of the film (a story of forbidden love between two cowboys in Wyoming) would appeal to a primarily gay demographic, sufferers of Brokeback Fever come from all walks of life. It seems that no one is immune from the disease.

   At present there is no cure. Sufferers describe a variety of interventions in an effort to ameliorate their symptoms. The most common seems to be repeat viewings of the film. In extreme cases, some sufferers have reported seeing the movie so many times that they have lost count of the number. Others report beating their own personal best for seeing a movie in a theater. For example, one sufferer declared, “The only other movie I have seen more than once in a theater is ‘Titanic,’ which I saw twice. But I have seen Brokeback Mountain three times, and plan to go again.” Sufferers have reported traveling great distances to see the film. An Irish sufferer traveled three hours by train (one way) and paid a 50 Euro train fare to see the movie on one of six screens in Dublin, the only place it was playing in his country.

   Sufferers report finding solace in discussion groups, especially on the Internet. There, a community of fellow sufferers provides comfort, support, and understanding. In particular, the Internet seems to provide an appropriate forum to assist with the need to discuss the story, movie, and its characters endlessly. Common discussions include the motivations and actions of the main characters, the ending (what really happened), and preferred scenes. Sufferers also quote favorite bits of dialogue to each other, play games, (eg “Cowboy Etiquette”), and develop elaborate backstories for all the characters. Tangentially, sufferers discuss technical aspects of making the movie and share information about the real-life performers who were in the film. A particularly intriguing discussion is about what special features should/will be included on the DVD. This seems to give sufferers full rein to imagine all the scenes that were not included in the final film, as well as to learn more about its entire production from beginning to end.

   Unfortunately, while the Internet does provide solace, for some, the ongoing discussion seems to “fuel the fever” and worsen the illness. For example, at the Internet Movie Database (IMDb; www.imdb.com), the “Brokeback Mountain” discussion board has close to 110,000 messages, with new messages being posted every few seconds. Discussions on other movies that were in theaters at the same time as “Brokeback Mountain” are not nearly as active, with 30,117 messages for “King Kong,” 22,803 for “The Chronicles of Narnia,” and 15,442 for “Munich.” “Titanic,” another blockbuster love story and Academy Award winner, clocks in with a paltry 8,833. Sufferers with the Internet-addiction form of Brokeback Fever have reported spending too much time on the discussion boards, to the point where they are missing work or school. One sufferer, a college student, acknowledged that even though the current semester started two weeks prior, she had yet to open a textbook. It must be noted that things could be worse—at least she bought her books!

   Sufferers seem to recognize the extent of their disease, and echoing a poignant line from the film (“I wish I knew how to quit you”), ask how to quit Brokeback Mountain. Solutions, however, are sparse. And while many profess a desire to “quit BBM” (in Internet parlance) it seems that they are truly enjoying the experience and want it to last, even though they recognize it is disrupting their lives.

   Because it is a new clinical entity, it is not known if Brokeback Fever is an acute or chronic illness, although the zero case, as noted above, has seemed to suffer from it for at least eight years. Ongoing data collection about the illness and its clinical presentation should help to clarify this point.

   If you, or a loved one, are suffering from Brokeback Fever, there are a few things you can do. First, be thankful that you acquired Brokeback Fever and not the clinically offensive “Grandma’s Boy Fever.” If you have to watch a movie multiple times, at least it is one of the best movies that has ever been put to film and stands up well to repeated viewings. Second, if you have been active in Internet discussions, you have likely made new friends. Broadening your social circle is always a good thing. Third, give yourself to the experience. Many sufferers have described the experience of seeing “Brokeback Mountain” as being life-changing and transcendent. They have used it as an opportunity to examine their lives, re-think decisions, and strengthen relationships. We often need a trigger to make us move forward. Who knows where these triggers come from? The fact that this movie has reached so deeply into the hearts and minds of so many people speaks to its power to transform. So, rather than fighting the feeling, give yourself to it and see if it brings about positive change. Finally, be patient. Time is always a great healer. It is probable that the symptoms of Brokeback Fever will slowly subside, eventually becoming a warm spot in your heart and a very special memory in your mind.

   And rejoice in this fact: rumor has it that the DVD will be released on April 4th!

Leslie H. Nicoll is a Registered Nurse and owner of Maine Desk, LLC in Portland, Maine. She admits to an advanced case of Brokeback Fever and reports seeing the movie six times, as of this writing. She undertook this clinical analysis in an effort to cure herself of the disease.

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Offline Faye92

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2006, 09:17:44 pm »
Thank you so much Lynne and you had a good point about the homophobia that had been planted into Ennis' mind. That is the saddest part of all and I suppose for me, I believe in taking risks when it comes to love no matter what, hence my frustration with Ennis. I would have told him to just be who you are and love 'cause in the end, that's all that really matters. But he couldn't get past those fears and who could blame him with all that he had heard and seen as a little boy. Initailly, I felt sorry for Jack, whose personality I identify with the most, but now I am beginning to understand what Ennis may have felt.

When I first saw this film, I was so mad with Ennis and those that saw the world as he did and had little understanding of him but as I search, listen and learn, perhaps there is much more to Ennis. We all behave the way that we do for a reason and no doubt, Ennis acted as a result of that. Now I'm finding myself wanting to know even more about Ennis.

I'm looking forward to reading the short novel after the New Year!!

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2007, 08:03:15 pm »
Thank you so much Lynne and you had a good point about the homophobia that had been planted into Ennis' mind. That is the saddest part of all and I suppose for me, I believe in taking risks when it comes to love no matter what, hence my frustration with Ennis. I would have told him to just be who you are and love 'cause in the end, that's all that really matters. But he couldn't get past those fears and who could blame him with all that he had heard and seen as a little boy. Initailly, I felt sorry for Jack, whose personality I identify with the most, but now I am beginning to understand what Ennis may have felt.

When I first saw this film, I was so mad with Ennis and those that saw the world as he did and had little understanding of him but as I search, listen and learn, perhaps there is much more to Ennis. We all behave the way that we do for a reason and no doubt, Ennis acted as a result of that. Now I'm finding myself wanting to know even more about Ennis.

I'm looking forward to reading the short novel after the New Year!!

Interesting feelings about Ennis; conversely I find Ennis to be the main, if not the single, captivating aspect of the film. It is his view of the world which is ever so endearing in every way. His near complete inwardness shrouded by a personal sense of responsibilty and clear desire to be all he can be within the bounds he believes he has makes him ivery attractive. The way he approached his life and situation makes the story/film. Had he pursued his life as you would have recommended him to do...not only would the story be one that is "typical" by today's standards (and hence not very provacative), Ennis as a character would fall into a mold. Ennis, for many men, is an affirmation of life and a realization that pleasure, happiness, comfort with another human is acheiveable in spite of choosing to get there on a road less easy and stay on that road. I believe Ennis obtained more love and a lasting, life-long, true "partnership" with Jake that not many other men, even in a openly gay lifestyle, are able to attain. Nothing sad or regretful about that. Ennis is all man; he's Jakes hero, and Ennis' promise to Jake at the end epitomizes Ennis' utter and complete commitment to himself and Jake.

Offline Katie77

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2007, 02:23:04 am »
Ennis, for many men, is an affirmation of life and a realization that pleasure, happiness, comfort with another human is acheiveable in spite of choosing to get there on a road less easy and stay on that road. I believe Ennis obtained more love and a lasting, life-long, true "partnership" with Jake that not many other men, even in a openly gay lifestyle, are able to attain. Nothing sad or regretful about that. Ennis is all man; he's Jakes hero, and Ennis' promise to Jake at the end epitomizes Ennis' utter and complete commitment to himself and Jake.

What a wonderful way to describe the character of Ennis and the love and "partnership" he had with Jack.....certainly takes away a lot of the sadness that a lot of us feel for Ennis, and gives his character a special strength.

Gees, I thought I knew this friend of mine so well, then I read your post, and I see him in a better,happier, stronger role, and realize how much he definately received from his relationship with Jack.
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Offline Ladyeve

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2007, 11:39:26 pm »


When I first saw this film, I had no love for Ennis, (to be honest) for a long time.  He fought Jack at every turn, to be more committed to this relationship that lasted for twenty years.   Jack's commitment  to him was there, but Ennis was so fearful, and this is man who would fight at a drop of a hat.  But yet couldn't or wouldn't fight for the love he had for Jack.  I said "this  just doesn't make sense"   Jack was the one I admired, he was out there, and knew who he was, and what he wanted, and he wanted Ennis.   Jack went through all the things that Ennis feared, the put down from Aguirre when he went back to work for him,  the rodeo clown's rejection when  he tried to come on to him.  He went through all that, and Ennis just thought people were talking about him.  But Jack kept on with life, even with the pain.  Maybe I can have a better understanding of Ennis, I want to,  but I couldn't help feel Ennis was a coward, and didn't appreciate Jack's love and commitment to him until after his death.



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2007, 11:25:48 pm »
Still...think of how far Ennis came in his personal journey from where he started...a child subject to a terrifying vision and a tyrannical father, a brother who beat him up constantly, siblings who rejected him, abandoned by his parents, his siblings, and even his truck (the transmission went out, so he had to drop out of school).

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Offline nakymaton

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2007, 11:27:25 pm »
Still...think of how far Ennis came in his personal journey from where he started...a child subject to a terrifying vision and a tyrannical father, a brother who beat him up constantly, siblings who rejected him, abandoned by his parents, his siblings, and even his truck (the transmission went out, so he had to drop out of school).

Ok. Now you've gone and reminded me of the joke about what happens when you play country music backwards.
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Offline Katie77

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2007, 11:29:16 pm »
tell us the joke!!
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Offline nakymaton

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2007, 11:33:50 pm »
What happens when you play country music backwards?

You get your job back, you get your wife back, your truck starts running again, and your dog comes back to life.

(I hope this makes sense to people who didn't spend their childhood trying to play records backwards to decode the secret Satanic messages!)
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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2007, 11:36:04 pm »
Yes, it does!!

 :D :D :D :D :D
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2007, 11:29:08 pm »

When I first saw this film, I had no love for Ennis, (to be honest) for a long time.  He fought Jack at every turn, to be more committed to this relationship that lasted for twenty years.   Jack's commitment  to him was there, but Ennis was so fearful, and this is man who would fight at a drop of a hat.  But yet couldn't or wouldn't fight for the love he had for Jack.  I said "this  just doesn't make sense"   Jack was the one I admired, he was out there, and knew who he was, and what he wanted, and he wanted Ennis.   Jack went through all the things that Ennis feared, the put down from Aguirre when he went back to work for him,  the rodeo clown's rejection when  he tried to come on to him.  He went through all that, and Ennis just thought people were talking about him.  But Jack kept on with life, even with the pain.  Maybe I can have a better understanding of Ennis, I want to,  but I couldn't help feel Ennis was a coward, and didn't appreciate Jack's love and commitment to him until after his death.


It seems that your evaluation of Ennis, like so many, is negative and exemplory of the desire to judge him basis contemporary measurements and 'what one might do today'. I think, conversely, that Ennis was far from coward status; unless one knows what it is to be bisexual or homosexual in the 1960s where Ennis was, one cannot imagine the need to put up a front. Regardless of one's opinion of 'what i would do', sheltering oneself from harm's way is not a sign of cowardice. Closeted behavior is not cowardice; rather it's a chosen lifestyle that works within a framework, sometimes comfortable, sometimes not very comfortable.

And, I do not think Ennis fought against Jack. Ennis was far more realistic; he accepted the responsibility of marriage for himself AND Jack (Jack would have walked from his wife and young child), he managed to meet with Jack under far greater difficulties than Jack had, he, apparently, was committed and faithful during their years together while Jack used the excuse of 'having to have more than 3-4 high altitude...". Jack, to me, put sex above his emotional commitment to Ennis more than once, particularly in the end. Ennis was the pillar of strength, the real man, the source of strength and solidarity, and voice of reason in an unreasonable situation.

I am also not sure Jack was "out there" and deserves great amounts of admiration for "knowing who he was". If so, why did he marry and have a child? Very selfish, indeed, if he was focused on Ennis.

both men sought safety zones within which to live and cope with their feelings; each was slightly different but not worlds apart. Ennis to me, however, is a tower of greatness in terms of how he tried to please, kept on giving, remained uncomplaining, and loved and appreciated the blessings he had. His line when he and jack were stream-side after their reunion "...I'm sending up a prayer of thanks...". He was grateful for what he had; he did not measure his joy, success, and love for what he did not have. There's a man who I'd stand in line to shake his hand.


Offline lachlan

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2007, 09:48:12 am »
Hello, Brokies! I live in the Scottish Highlands (no TV or computer here; I use one when I'm visiting the town) but I work in Bulgaria much of the time; also in the mountains. However, I lived in the Cascade Mtns (west of the Rockies) back in the '60s. I had a remarkably similar relationship to that of Jack and Innes. Naturally, I was overwhelmed by the film but also totally convinced by it. From my own experience, and what I learned from others in similar circumstances, I can vouch for the authenticity of the narrative. I do, of course, have my own interpretation of some of the issues (overly-rigid "sexuality" definitions, exclusion from social groups - the Jimbo scene - and the emotional consequences of losing a loved one without any ritual of departure). I've just written some in the sites "davecullen" and "ennisjack" which I suppose have a crossover of membership. But I'd be happy to share some of my thoughts and memories as well as interpretations of the film and story. I'd also like to learn from others. Is there anyone else out there who had a secret male-male relationship in the American West during the '60s? My lover (and, yes, we both had women and kids) was named, coincidentally, Innes. And we first met in 1963 on a mountain sheep-ranch (in Packwood, WA). He was killed in January, 1971. I learned of his death from a postcard delayed by a postal strike (and as the post had come out of sequence, the message wasn't clear; I had to make that phonecall). And further; I found that he'd hidden his closest personal belongings among my own in a cellar cupboard rather than leaving them with his wife. I have them still. Hope to find some similar experiences - and some contrasting ones!     Lachlan - goin' round the coffeepot lookin' for...
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2007, 02:14:57 pm »
maybe talk to diana ross about not getting credit for a movie about your life.

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2007, 03:23:30 pm »
Hello, Brokies! I live in the Scottish Highlands (no TV or computer here; I use one when I'm visiting the town) but I work in Bulgaria much of the time; also in the mountains. However, I lived in the Cascade Mtns (west of the Rockies) back in the '60s. I had a remarkably similar relationship to that of Jack and Innes. Naturally, I was overwhelmed by the film but also totally convinced by it. From my own experience, and what I learned from others in similar circumstances, I can vouch for the authenticity of the narrative. I do, of course, have my own interpretation of some of the issues (overly-rigid "sexuality" definitions, exclusion from social groups - the Jimbo scene - and the emotional consequences of losing a loved one without any ritual of departure). I've just written some in the sites "davecullen" and "ennisjack" which I suppose have a crossover of membership. But I'd be happy to share some of my thoughts and memories as well as interpretations of the film and story. I'd also like to learn from others. Is there anyone else out there who had a secret male-male relationship in the American West during the '60s? My lover (and, yes, we both had women and kids) was named, coincidentally, Innes. And we first met in 1963 on a mountain sheep-ranch (in Packwood, WA). He was killed in January, 1971. I learned of his death from a postcard delayed by a postal strike (and as the post had come out of sequence, the message wasn't clear; I had to make that phonecall). And further; I found that he'd hidden his closest personal belongings among my own in a cellar cupboard rather than leaving them with his wife. I have them still. Hope to find some similar experiences - and some contrasting ones!     Lachlan - goin' round the coffeepot lookin' for...
When you saw the movie, it must have hit you like a ton of bricks. Thank you for making your way here. I asssume you're not still married. Do you think the movie will help you find the "handle"?
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Offline lachlan

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2007, 12:34:04 pm »
Yes, I think the movie definitely helped me find the "handle" inasmuch as it confirmed the intensity and truth of the most powerful love and loss that I've ever known. But it also served to convey this to many of my friends who have never quite understood what I went through. They seem to have a much more thorough understanding of the person that I am today after seeing the film. I was also quite taken by the CD of the music. Back in the 60's, it was always assumed that whenever a man sang a love song it was to a woman. We had to imagine that some songs were intended for us when we heard them. So I was quite overwhelmed to listen to "All I want to do is live with you..." and know that - as it was commissioned for BBM - it was intended to be from a man to a man. That fact was almost as profound as the movie itself. I also came to realise, although I'd thought of this before, that the fact that my Innes never had a funeral and that the extent of my relationship with him was not openly acknowledged at the time of his death, meant that I couldn't come to terms with the end of that stage of my life. When I saw the final scene of Innes in the trailer, I realised that I was witnessing myself as I am every year on Christmas Day. Innes and I never got to spend it together. For the past 36 years I've spent it largely, or entirely, on my own. The ritual with shirts and the photo is something which I have enacted countless times with Innes' picture, his pipe, his lighter, his repair kit and - yes - his shirts. I am considering arranging for a memorial service sometime in the future and to that end have been trying to track down others who knew us back then. I've managed to contact one so far and just emailed him a set of photos. His warm, thoughtful response was magnificent.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2007, 02:00:08 pm »
Having a memorial is a very good idea. Please keep us informed on how this goes. Have you read the story??

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Offline lachlan

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2007, 06:41:21 am »
Yes, indeed, I've read the story and most of Annie Proulx's work. I have a hunch that Dianna Ossana and Larry McMurtry delved into her other stories for some of the characters they inserted into the screenplay: Cassie is very like the single women described in one of the stories and the scene with Jimbo the rodeo clown seems inspired by her tale of a lonely bullrider. One thing that struck me - and I don't know if this is the correct thread to bring it up - is that the Military Draft was a major factor in the lives of young men in 60s America; far more so than the film or the book imply. I find it puzzling that this is clearly an issue for Jack (1963 Jack: "..if the Army don't get me."  1967 Ennis: "Army didn't get you?"), but not for Ennis. Was he somehow exempt? After being put under Military Arrest and harrangued by a tribunal, I was given a "1-Y" classification (code for "suspicious loyalty"; I was born in the US of Scottish parents but spent much of my childhood in Scotland or Canada) and this caused numerous problems which still effect my life today. My own Innes was half-Indian. He spent much of that time on the run under a pseudonym (he selected "Innes" from the Gaelic "Aonghus", coincidentally; it was not his real name), and was ultimately killed in an avalanche while attempting to cross the border into Canada in January 1971. I was curious that the Draft issue was not a more prominent element in the storyline.
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Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2007, 06:42:50 pm »
Guess that Annie did not speak to anyone about the draft issue in the USA nor Canada, for her book!

She did speak to some person(s).

Some of it is still a secret!!

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2007, 12:44:43 pm »
I remember those days too...yes the draft was an ever-present threat. I knew many who went to Canada, or were drafted against their will. I also knew men who got married or went to college, because those were ways to get out of the draft. There were even some who injured themselves or feigned mental illness. Young people today have no idea how it was.

I'm glad it wasn't dwelt on too much in the movie. Brokeback Mountain is a kind of mythical place, and Wyoming itself seems to exist outside of the rest of the world, even tho it's surrounded by it!! The movie did not even mention the assassination of President Kennedy even though that happened during the time of the film. The screenplay had more signposts and Ang Lee took most of them out.
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Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2007, 07:14:28 pm »
Glad you talk about the draft in the USA Front-Ranger!!

May I take part of your comment:

I'm glad it wasn't dwelt on too much in the movie. Brokeback Mountain is a kind of mythical place, and Wyoming itself seems to exist outside of the rest of the world, even tho it's surrounded by it!! The movie did not even mention the assassination of President Kennedy even though that happened during the time of the film. The screenplay had more signposts and Ang Lee took most of them out.
...

I knew too of many men who were draft-dodgers, and saw many gay men even in Canada!! Born in the USA, some still are living in Canada, because of that war and draft!!

You say that the movie has NOT dwelt took much about the draught and/or draft-dodging?? Annie does talk about the draft!! It seems to me that Jack did, and also did even something agaisnt it; is that not so Front-Ranger??

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2007, 11:46:34 am »
to me, the infusion of draft issues, Kennedy's assasination, etc, would have taken the correct focus from the film. Books are another thing, but movies that get too multi-faceted, especially when the intent is to make a major point about a pivotal subject, end up being ho hum. the beauty of BBM is that it kept on track throughout and Lee blended high and low emotions, calm and violent scenes, past and present times without straying off-point. Beautiful.

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2007, 08:13:55 pm »
Thanks HerrKaiser!

Your comment is interesting, as you say this:
to me, the infusion of draft issues, Kennedy's assasination, etc, would have taken the correct focus from the film. Books are another thing, but movies that get too multi-faceted, especially when the intent is to make a major point about a pivotal subject, end up being ho hum. the beauty of BBM is that it kept on track throughout and Lee blended high and low emotions, calm and violent scenes, past and present times without straying off-point. Beautiful.
...

I do think too like you that Lee does stick to his guns!

However, the draft is talked about even in the movie!

Does anyone realise that Jack maybe mutulated himself in order not to be drafted??

Awaiting your news and that of others,

hugs!!


Offline Rayn

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2007, 01:20:46 am »
There could actually be a Sixth Stage, Phillip.  That would be "Enjoying and Living the Changes That Began with Brokeback Mt."  See, I think the stages are very accurate and true.  I went through them all, but now, after processing a lot online and elsewhere, I've made changes in my life that really needed to be addressed.  I have new a job in a new city and actually found someone that I dated for a while. 

Ok, a date, you say, that's no big deal, but for me it was since I live in Asia and my type isn't Oriental.  What happened was I stopped thinking it was "impossible" to meet anyone at all and did what it takes to meet someone.  It did not turn into a lifelong relationship, but it was a step in the right direction, away from isolation and loneliness.

The job and move were good too, but the dating was the biggest step.  If I were in the US, I'd have no problem, but here, it's not easy.  So, now, also, I am near the capital where there are many guys like me and the I've increased the odds of dating even more.  All this was due to realizations that BBM sparked, then ignited into a blaze inside me.  I am now enjoying greater freedom and a better life. 

Thanks, I needed to share that!  ;)

Rayn

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2007, 10:56:26 am »
Rayn, your comment is very revealing and great!!

Be wonderful to hear more from you.

Keep care,

hugs!!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #63 on: April 16, 2007, 09:57:35 am »
Wow Phillip!
I am so glad I stumbled on to this thread!
I just sw the movie last monday so I am still in phase one.
It's hard to work or interact with my family. I feel like I m walking around in a fog. I haven't cried this much since my grandma died 13yrs ago.
Thanks for posting this I'm getting a grip on my grief but I'm havinga hard time deciding what to do next.
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2007, 10:02:37 am »
Wow Phillip!
I am so glad I stumbled on to this thread!
I just sw the movie last monday so I am still in phase one.
It's hard to work or interact with my family. I feel like I m walking around in a fog. I haven't cried this much since my grandma died 13yrs ago.
Thanks for posting this I'm getting a grip on my grief but I'm havinga hard time deciding what to do next.

Lee, don't decide to anything next.  Don't make big decisions when you're in a highly emotional state.  Let the experience of the film sit for a while. 

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2007, 04:00:50 pm »
It is good to see that I am NOT the only one with difficulties after seeing the movie.

Hugs!!

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2007, 04:03:17 pm »
It is good to see that I am NOT the only one with difficulties after seeing the movie.

Hugs!!

Oh darlin' you are most certainly not the only one...all 914 members here have had difficulties...that's why we are all here.

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2007, 04:07:52 pm »
Thanks Scott!

Great that you are all here!!

That you are too!!

This movie affects for months, even year or more??

Hugs!

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2007, 04:10:01 pm »
Thanks Scott!

Great that you are all here!!

That you are too!!

This movie affects for months, even year or more??

Hugs!

I think it's different for each one depending on what lessons we need to learn.  I passed through it all a while ago, and now don't even think of the movie when I come here.  It's  a good thing to be open to these new feelings and perspectives that both you and Lee are experiencing.  It means you are growing and learning, anf that is something that must never stop.

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2007, 04:25:10 pm »
Thanks Scott!

I agree with you!!

It is wonderful to learn with this story of Annie's!!

And with the film!!

And great too to read your comments!!

I am puzzled as to why no one sees more... much more!! ??

Hugs!!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2007, 05:58:59 pm »
So, how can we move on without losing the feeling?
I want o keep the positive aspects of what I'm feeliing to learn, grow and change.
But the sheer magnitude of the sadness is really dragging me down.
I', not eating (not necassairily a bad thing) I can sleep, I can't concentrate, I'm snappy and just want to be left alone to wrap up in a blanket in a dark room and watch the movie over and over just so I can see my boys.
I'm really losing it here. :(
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2007, 06:12:36 pm »
So, how can we move on without losing the feeling?
I want o keep the positive aspects of what I'm feeliing to learn, grow and change.
But the sheer magnitude of the sadness is really dragging me down.
I', not eating (not necassairily a bad thing) I can sleep, I can't concentrate, I'm snappy and just want to be left alone to wrap up in a blanket in a dark room and watch the movie over and over just so I can see my boys.
I'm really losing it here. :(

No you're not.  We all went through it.  The most important thing is for you to come to terms with why you are feeling that magnitidue of sadness.  It's not easy because you may have to face some unpleasant realities, but you have to do that in order move forward.

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #72 on: April 16, 2007, 06:46:39 pm »
Thanks loneleeb3, and Scott!!

Loneleeb3, may I say that I still feel alone even if I have been on this site for months now,
and assure you that I am less and less in that loliness since many here help
in discussing Annie's story, the movie, the actors, and many in that (before, during and after),
as well as our/their personal lives as we want during the time desired and subjects started.

I am blesssed by you, Scott, and all the others here helping me!! Many others helped me too!!

And am happy too that they like my mutual help.

Concerning sadness, I looked many days only the happy parts of the movie, and this has helped me a lot.
Maybe, you might want to consider that too?? Plus daily, I searched and found clips (again as much as happy ones as possible on YouTube.com) since many persons from around the world did clips of the BM movie!! That helped me too... and still does!!

And, I watched dozens of times numerous days, months, even last week, two gay guys (twins) from Montana singing with a surprise, many surprises, and I noticed, as others did when I sent their (the twins) internet address,  that they make us happy , and not sad!! Raised in Montana, they (the twins) told their parents that they are gay, but the parents refused that... last year I think it was (I do not know if they still are refusing to accept that their sons are gay men recently); and, you can find out that their sister (and I think a brother too) accepts them (the twins)!! You want to see that?

Hugs to you, and to all!!


Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2007, 08:10:53 am »
I really need a hug! :'(
Just two arms wrapped tightly around me and a deep voice whispering in my ear "Lil'Darlin, it's gonna be just fine". Thats what I need about now!
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2007, 09:30:46 am »
Thanks loneleeb3!

You say:
I really need a hug!
Just two arms wrapped tightly around me and a deep voice whispering in my ear "Lil'Darlin, it's gonna be just fine". Thats what I need about now!
...

In replying, may I say that I find it great that you do want hugs!!
I hope that the comments you are receiving here are hug-full!!

Is that a song: Lil'Darlin, it's gonna be just fine". ?? You know all the words??

Hugs!!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2007, 09:44:50 am »
No, Ihadn't even thought of that song!
Thanks though! And a cyber hug is just great!
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2007, 09:47:36 am »
So that is a song??

Glad you like the hugs...

and I wish I could hug you in person!!

Why did Ennis do that in the shed, any idea?

Hugs!!

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2007, 12:18:10 am »
Wow Phillip!
I am so glad I stumbled on to this thread!
I just sw the movie last monday so I am still in phase one.
It's hard to work or interact with my family. I feel like I m walking around in a fog. I haven't cried this much since my grandma died 13yrs ago.
Thanks for posting this I'm getting a grip on my grief but I'm havinga hard time deciding what to do next.

Yes, these are all familiar symptoms.  :)

In stage one, most people just want to learn as much as they can about the film and the story, learning all the details and understanding all of the nuances and meanings.  Usually, people don't try to figure out what they want to do next until they first understand what they just saw and what parts of their own life the movie is touching.  I spent at least ten days just absorbing as much as I could, and wanting to be around others who were going through the same thing so I could learn what they learned or saw.

It's like putting together the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.  You are not going to be able to do it in just a day.

For some of us, not having that emotional waterfall washing over us a year out is something we sort of miss now, but I suspect it's the intensity of the emotions we miss.  Sometimes life-changing moments come during the "kick in the pants" periods (something I also call a 'moment of clarity' when everything starts to click.)

Everyone responds differently and feels something different.  Some just have empathy for the characters - none of the situations in the film resemble their own lives.  Others are dealing with the sexuality issue.  For me it was the procrastination and not committing to making a life change and seeing what the potential results of that could mean down the road.  Some others have adopted a rescue mentality - they wanted to be essentially in the film knocking heads together and waking up the two of them: that sense of trying to grab hold of the power to change something in the face of utter powerlessness as the film moves forward.

What made me contemplate starting BetterMost wasn't to focus exclusively on the characters.  Ultimately, they are fiction.  To dwell upon the actors and the story alone misses the point.  There are real people (maybe in some ways ourselves) living these lives right now.  The goal here is to finish the story in your own life, or perhaps even help others in finding a path to a better life.

It's a process, as you've discovered.  Certain feelings you have right now will pass and you will miss them for their intensity.  But hopefully positive momentum in your own life will replace them.  Unfortunately, I promise that's going to be more subtle and it probably won't feel as amazing as the film's initial impact, but it's ultimately far better.  It reminds me of the relationships I've watched a lot of my friends get into.  You have that early infatuation phase where all you think about is that other person.  You can't think about anything else.  In time, however, those feeling subside and you begin to get some normality back into your life.  Some of my friends always mistake that loss of intensity as being the equivalent of "the thrill is gone/the feelings aren't the same anymore" and they actually break up with their girl or boyfriend.  What they don't recognize is the building of a subtle foundation in their lives as part of that relationship, upon which so many other things can now be built.  It's the foundation that will potentially last for your entire life, but they don't see that because it doesn't come in the same emotional package as the infatuation did.

For me, Brokeback is a lot like that.  The infatuation is over, but the incredible foundation it has now laid has made so many other things possible, from the amusing new interest in western and country music, to the interest in the life and culture of that region of the country, to the fact I've stopped missing opportunities and have taken a lot more chances than I've done in the past.  And I've met a ton of great people online here as well, and those friendships that are built go beyond the film and now are, more and more, part of a great new community.

It's a great journey to be on, no matter when you start!
You're a part of our family - BetterMost, Wyoming

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #78 on: April 25, 2007, 03:06:57 pm »
Quote
Certain feelings you have right now will pass and you will miss them for their intensity.
I don't know, I sure wold like to stop crying everytime I see or think about the movie.
It just strikes such a raw spot in me.
I can't say enough about how glad I am I found my way home to bettermost!
I have to say I really love everyone here I have come in contact with and can't wait to get to know everyone better.
This place really is like a little hometown. Like a big extended family.
Thank you Phillip for making this possible. Thank you everyone else for making it such a nice place to be!
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2007, 11:55:24 am »
Thanks guys!!

Be assured that I feel like you do Lee!!

Sure helps communicating on this site!!

And maybe we can see persons in person too... reaching out that way as well.
Did you see that chap from GAYDADDIES yet,may I ask?
And other gay men?

Hugs!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:05 pm »
Thanks guys!!

Be assured that I feel like you do Lee!!

Sure helps communicating on this site!!

And maybe we can see persons in person too... reaching out that way as well.
Did you see that chap from GAYDADDIES yet,may I ask?
And other gay men?

Hugs!
No, I'm not rady for that yet.
I'm still trying to work through the current drama with these feelings I am having and my marriage.
I'm not ready to step out of the closet yet and start a new life. I need to put an end to one so I can start a new one. I want to this to go as smoothly as possible for everyone involved including myself. After that and i have time to mourn and collect myself then i will attempt to begina new life. One small step at a time.
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2007, 12:10:22 pm »
Thanks Lee!

I can think about what you say... yes.

That is one way. Speaking with a gay person in person would not mean that you are out of the closet ? Nothing wrong with that, even in private! ?

hugs!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2007, 12:12:23 pm »
Thanks Lee!

I can think about what you say... yes.

That is one way. Speaking with a gay person in person would not mean that you are out of the closet ? Nothing wrong with that, even in private! ?

hugs!
I know but the one guy kinda creeped me out. I think he was interested in more than talking. I am in no way shape or form ready for that. Specially since I am still married.
Maybe I took it wrong but I'd better be safe than sorry. Don't want to put myself in an awkward situation.
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2007, 01:52:09 am »
I know but the one guy kinda creeped me out. I think he was interested in more than talking. I am in no way shape or form ready for that. Specially since I am still married.

One of the first gay people I met spent half of the evening laying on the floor at my feet looking up at me during our conversation trying to find a friendly way to bribe me to get down on the floor with him.  Phillip doesn't play Vega$ so I stayed in the chair.  :)

The second encounter wasn't too much better at a local Perkins restaurant where it seemed a good number of my high school classmate graduates were at the adjacent tables while I endured an evening of catty, extremely flamboyant gay men who made comments about "being on the rag" and trashing the waitress' outfit and hairstyle.  I was slowly shrinking in my chair trying to slip under the table.

While there are a lot of friendly, understanding, and non-sexually obsessed gay men out there, there are also some that presume everyone is open and ready for anything.  Stand your ground and if the discomfort/pressure continues, move on.

Posts in Safe Haven will probably bring many more responses on this topic.  :)
You're a part of our family - BetterMost, Wyoming

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2007, 01:37:37 pm »
Thanks, thanks Phillip Dampier, and Lee!!

Yes, there are some men who just like sex anytime from anyone; same thing in the straight world!!

There are weirdos in both worlds too!!

I guess that I sought another gay man too soon after my partner's passing, when I went to a restaurant to meet someone, but since I was still so upset, I talked too loud and I noticed that persons there listened to us talk. So, that potential firend, lover, pal, never contacted me after that!!

We gay men seem to be too much in the closet, or too much out!! ??

Hugs, hugs!!

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2007, 10:30:15 am »
Well, It's been over a month and I am still grieving. I guess thats what you would call it.
Grieving for what though I'm not quite sure.
Am I grieving for the boys and their lost chance at true love, true happiness, the hurt and pain they constantly lived with, their longing for somthing that they would never have? Or, am I grieving for those same things within myself.
Lost chances,lost love, pain, anguish,despair, fear. Fear of never finding true love, true happiness, fear of life passing me by. It's hard to tell. Probably more of the latter.
Alls I know is that I hear the songs on BBM radio and I cry, I see the movie, I cry, I read the story, I cry.
If I think about the message of the movie I'm overwhelmed with emotion. Sometimes I even find it hard to breathe.
I feel like the sheep Ennis found after the first night in the tent together. My insides have been ripped out and left me empty.
I guess if their is a bright side I'm now just waiting to be filled up again. It's just proving to be a long journey to the fillin station.  :-\
"The biggest obstacle to most of us achieving our dreams isn't reality, it's our own fear"

"Saint Paul had his Epiphany on the road to Damascus, Mine was on Brokeback Mountain"

Offline Artiste

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2007, 09:48:49 pm »
Thanks Lee!

Yes, I guess you and I, plus others, do all that, too much grief if that is what it is called!

The film  tells us of violence against gay men!! Too, of course, there is love between two men.

Will society ever accept gay men? So we can also accept ourselves? Are those good questions?


Hugs!!

Offline Sammi

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2009, 11:25:31 pm »
What a great post.  Being a new person to this movie and in the early stages it is actually sad to read the stages I will be at next.  There is something about that stage 4.  Something is off in my life that makes me connect to this movie.  Wow - very insightful post.   I will be thinking about this a lot now.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2009, 03:06:08 pm »
What a great post.  Being a new person to this movie and in the early stages it is actually sad to read the stages I will be at next.  There is something about that stage 4.  Something is off in my life that makes me connect to this movie.  Wow - very insightful post.   I will be thinking about this a lot now.

Welcome to BetterMost Sammi. :)  You're certainly among people here who understand what you're going through and your reactions as a newcomer to the movie.

I'm jealous of you actually... I remember the super exciting early days of being a Brokie.  BBM was all I could think about and I was desperate to talk about it all the time with folks who understood.  There's certainly lots to discover about the film and the story.  So definitely have fun.  And, it is true, I think, that the ways the movie/story impacts each serious Brokie can be very personal and pretty profound.

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Offline BBM_victim

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2017, 03:11:57 am »
Actually i had this idea of such a thread, too. It's nice to see that there was one from early on already. (My idea also included advises of experienced Brockies for overcoming the stages, though.)

I am not sure which stage i am in. Currently after about 4-5 months i am still very interested in all details, interpretations, interviews... But i am also already at piece with the ending (although the story itself surely continues to be extremely tragic and sad).

I do live through the days as if in a fog. A Brokeback-Mountain-fog. The thoughts about it are in the foreground and everything else keeps popping up but then inevitably disappearing back into it.

The other day i had a thought that this movie made me feel things which were so real and true and of such high intensity that after they were gone i was left with a huge void and bleakness which made me feel sad and tired. It's not the story and the message itself (sure it is in a way), but the effect it had on me. It's difficult to put this in words.

I think the beauty of the nature in this movie (including all according sounds! especially sounds!) contributes to the feeling of this void. Living in one of the biggest cities in the world, surrounded by concrete, rushing people, artificial sounds, all that high-tech fast-living society, just makes me feel even more tired of all of it. The "simple life" of when i was a kid was much happier, much more connected with nature... I found myself now wanting to go camping, having some really warm feelings towards a picture of a tent in a catalog!!!  :laugh: ::) :P

I do see parallels to my own life. I do feel stuck at the moment, also being scared of doing something against it - much like Ennis must have felt, too. So, i console myself that for everything there is a right timing. And if i am not able to change anything at this moment, then it just means that i / the situation is not ready for a change yet. So, somehow i try to "distract yourself until you can forget about it", although i don't think i want to forget about it.

Anyway, looking forward to what this experience might lead me to!  :D

Offline Sason

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Re: For Our New Members: Brokeback Mountain Stages of Grief & Acceptance
« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2017, 02:30:01 pm »
Hi BBM-victim

My advice would be, just wait and see what happens. Roll with the flow, and allow yourself to stay in your brokie-dom.

I think for most of us, the BBM experience has brought about some profound insight and/or life changes that we never could have expected.

And yes, the intense feelings will wear off eventually, which I have double feelings about. In a way it's a relief, but there's also a certain sadness to it.

Anyway, it's nice to see you on the forum!

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre