Author Topic: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times  (Read 25556 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #60 on: April 07, 2006, 09:29:47 pm »
Awww!  Thanks for the nice welcome Victoria!  Yes, I'm certainly in heaven around here right now.  What a truly amazing board and community.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 09:34:41 pm by atz75 »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2006, 11:45:02 pm »
Hi Amanda! I'm so glad you're here! And as usual, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Except maybe the exploding tire rim being preposterous. I once saw a thing on TV indicating that this is an actual danger, the cause of numerous deaths each year! Scared me out of ever even attempting to change a flat. Still, I'll admit that Lureen does sound like she's reciting a rehearsed lie.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2006, 12:04:01 am »
Hey there Friend,
 :)
Well, I will always concede that it's important for the tire story to remain a possibility.  I do think it should remain unclear.  I probably shouldn't have used the word preposterous.  And, I certainly don't want to put forth my interpretation as the only one.  There are many ways to read the situation. 

The *way* that Lureen describes the accident has always sounded a bit forced to me.  It seems to have too many carefully described details and qualifying circumstances.  It sounds rehearsed.  But, keeping the accident idea on the table as a possible explanation of his death re-inforces the more important point that you made in your post earlier...  The crucial thing to Ennis's story is what's going on in his own head.  He immediately jumps to the conclusion about the murder scenario and it continues to reveal his inner angst.  Maybe Jack did die in an accident, but Ennis immediately calls to mind a scenario (*unspoken by Lureen*) that involves persecution and violence based on his on-going anxiety.

So happy to be here!
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline ednbarby

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2006, 12:17:43 am »
I agree, Amanda.  Lureen's description of Jack's death definitely sounds rehearsed.  It's as if the arm jumps back on the broken record to that bit.  There's no emotion in it whatsoever, and I think the movie shows us in several little ways that she really did love Jack, so how can there be no emotion?  Unless it's acted.

Nice to know you, Amanda Del Mar, by the way.
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2006, 12:32:22 am »
Lureen's description of Jack's death definitely sounds rehearsed.  It's as if the arm jumps back on the broken record to that bit.  There's no emotion in it whatsoever, and I think the movie shows us in several little ways that she really did love Jack, so how can there be no emotion?  Unless it's acted.

It is rehearsed.  Lureen's a widow who's had to repeat the same bizarre story so many times she has it down to a rote recitation.

When someone close to you dies, well-meaining friends and family always want to know 'what happened' even though everyone knows how painful it is to repeat the story.  :(  I didn't fault Lureen for her tone any more than I did my mother when my father died.

Offline Meryl

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2006, 12:37:30 am »
Quote
No offense to Starboardlight, but I would counsel against adopting the term "Rimmists." In certain circles that term might carry with it the implication of a certain sexual practice, the nature of which I will not elaborate on in the presence of ladies.

I can't speak for certain for Starbie, but something tells me he knew exactly what he was doing when he suggested that eloquent term.   He is wise in the ways of iron-y (pun intended). ;)  ;D


Quote
Thank you O Meryl the Wise, Ossana in the highest to the High Priestess of Tremblayana and keeper of the Sacred Collective

We definitely have to revive the Cult soon and give Victoria some sort of sacred office so she can continue to hold forth like this.   ;D

Welcome,  Amanda.  :)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2006, 12:49:37 am »
Nice to know you all too.  Thanks for the nice welcoming messages.  :)
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline b_hynds

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2006, 02:36:55 am »
I am firmly back in the Jack was murdered camp.   The "flash-back" of what happens seems to be more Lureen's to me than Ennis's.  And that little cry/moan she makes when she realizes who Ennis is, is her realization that Jack had the same relationship with Ennis that he was having with Randall. As Annie says in her story...the little voice is as cold as snow.

You know that old addage you don't shit wear you eat, will I've come to the conclusion that Jack did indeed take up with Randall and he was telling the truth when he told Ennis he almost got caught a coupla times sneaking out to be with the "wife"(when actually he was sneaking out to be with Randall)....that time he did get caught and it cost him his life..

I may change my mind after another half dozen viewing but this is where I'm sitting rightnow  pretty strong in that conviction.


I agree with everything you said Victoria, except I think it was Ennis who imagining the murder not Lureen.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2006, 08:36:10 am »
Quote
Jack was willing to come out to his parents to have him up there with him.  I mean, how huge is that?

Hiya ednb,

Do we know for a fact that Jack came out to his parents for that reason?  I kinda got the hint that Jack had always been left of center since his childhood as far as his parents were concerned - the peeing incident and the picture of the movie star in his room - as per the short story.  That he got flak from his old man for that very reason.

"Can't please my old man, no way."

I hear ya.  I'm sure his parents knew all along.  And along with your line, I think when he says to Ennis in that same conversation, "Your folks run you off?" there's an implication that his did, and again for that very reason.

But Ennis realized at Lightning Flat how unafraid Jack was - of his father, of what people in town thought, of everything - something I don't think he'd realized before.

You're right - it isn't as huge as actually coming out to one's parents who seemingly don't suspect.  But it's still way bigger than what Ennis thought Jack meant when he said "What if you and me had a little cow and calf operation?  It'd be a sweet life."
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2006, 08:46:35 am »
I am firmly back in the Jack was murdered camp.   The "flash-back" of what happens seems to be more Lureen's to me than Ennis's.  And that little cry/moan she makes when she realizes who Ennis is, is her realization that Jack had the same relationship with Ennis that he was having with Randall. As Annie says in her story...the little voice is as cold as snow.

You know that old addage you don't shit wear you eat, will I've come to the conclusion that Jack did indeed take up with Randall and he was telling the truth when he told Ennis he almost got caught a coupla times sneaking out to be with the "wife"(when actually he was sneaking out to be with Randall)....that time he did get caught and it cost him his life..

I may change my mind after another half dozen viewing but this is where I'm sitting rightnow  pretty strong in that conviction.


I agree with everything you said Victoria, except I think it was Ennis who imagining the murder not Lureen.

Same here.  I'm firmly in that camp, too, though I've also come to think that the central core of the tragedy is more heavily weighted in that Ennis was the cause Jack's death than in how exactly it happened.  But I think that the imagining of it was definitely Ennis'.  I thought that even before I read the short story and saw that it says so.  It has to be - it follows the arc of his being shown what he was shown as a child and how that made him what he is.  And I agree, Vic, that that's exactly what happened - Jack took up with Randall, people found out, and some of them killed him for it.  In the story, this, to me is made clear by "So now he knew it was the tire iron."  As soon as John Twist alludes to Randall, he knows that's exactly what happened.  That's all Annie has to say, and we know, too.

Look at Willie Nelson's song, as well - "He never done no wrong, he never done no wrong.  A thousand miles from home, and he never harmed no one.  He was a friend of mine."  Sure, even that can be seen as ambiguous, but I think it implies that Jack was an innocent killed by ugly outside forces.

I do love the ambiguity, though.  That's one of the many splendored things of this movie.  I love that it doesn't tell me what to think and gives me credit for having the intelligence and heart to draw my own conclusions and to take from it what I need.  I've come to get just plain pissed off when a movie or television show manipulates me or tries to.  That's why I always loved Six Feet Under, too.  The stories and characters just unfolded like flowers for you - there was no knocking you over the head with who you were supposed to like and what you supposed to think was happening.
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