Author Topic: newcomer from HBO with some questions!  (Read 4178 times)

Offline kallyn

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 01:23:59 am »
Wow you guys, thanks for the warm welcome!!   :D  Coffee'd be real nice.   :)

...in northern California  about 1953--when two people were out on a date, and one saw a one-light car, he/she/he would try to say "Pedille!" before the other, and was supposed to be rewarded with a kiss.

That is so funny!  My sister and her friends yell out "pediddle" when they see a broken headlight (almost the same word, but not quite), and then everyone is supposed to hit the roof of the car with their hand.  Bizarre that the tradition lived on in so convoluted a way, eh? (for reference, I am 23 and my sister is 19)

I am surprised that Ennis's broken headlight is news to so many.  I'll go post over on the electricy thread like front-ranger suggested to see what all those fine folk come up with.

I just cannot get these two cowboys out of my head.  I didn't go through grief though - I think on the first watching, I didn't really believe that Jack was dead.  I mean, movies don't work like that, you know?  Main characters don't just die quietly offscreen.  And then on the second watching I knew what to expect and I just had a sick resignedness about it.  Now I feel more of a nauseous kind of bone-deep sadness.  I'm glad I haven't cried, or I'd have to start trying to explain myself to people.  I'll probably check out the short story, but I want to movie to finish digesting first...

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 01:39:53 am »

Heya Kallyn!  We're glad to have you here!   Quite impressive observations indeed for only having seen the film a few times.

Yup, thinking about BBM all the time and the "bone-deep sadness" are both some of the first symptoms of Brokeback Fever.

I forgot to weigh in on the "I'm sorry" issue before...  I'm in the camp of people who definitely hear "I'm sorry" coming from Ennis.  I swear (no pun intended) that I heard it all 5 times in the theatre.  It never even crossed my mind to question it until I started reading some of the online debates.  But, I can understand why some people don't think it's there. 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 02:39:59 am by atz75 »
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Offline Daniel

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 01:46:15 am »
I noticed the missing right headlight about my 16th time in the theater... Anyone who has been around long enough to know me will know that I have a tendency to read too much into something, but now that another person has found it, I feel like I can share my views on this scene. Actually, I'll just throw out some points of consideration, and let you come to your own conclusions... I really do not like telling other people what to think.

Zechariah 11:17

"Woe to the worthless shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword will be on his arm and on his right eye! His arm will be totally withered. And his right eye will be blind!"

I also seem to remember that when Ennis got out of the truck he was cradling one of his arms... When he punched the other man he used the same hand repeatedly but I don't recall seeing the other arm or hand.

Matthew 5:29

"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

The right eye is controlled by the left side of the brain, which has typically been viewed as controlling connectivity, rationality, language and discipline while the right side of the brain has more emotional, less analytical processes. The absence of the right light or left-mindedness may be a part of the visual cues given to indicate that Ennis is in a blind rage.

Other possible correlations:

blindness of the right (conservative political/religious/social views as in right wing).

the conflict/antithesis of light and dark (eros and thanatos).



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Offline Lynne

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 03:28:26 am »
Daniel - Those are just fabulous obseravations!  You are the master!  I hadn't even considered the Biblical references, but they're plain as day, aren't they?

I forgot to weigh in on the "I'm sorry" issue before...  I'm in the camp of people who definitely hear "I'm sorry" coming from Ennis.  I swear (no pun intended) that I heard it all 5 times in the theatre.  It never even crossed my mind to question it until I started reading some of the online debates.  But, I can understand why some people don't think it's there. 

I'm in the camp of people who hear "I'm sorry" from Ennis and Two "S'allright's" from Jack.  I know Ennis' lips do not move :).  I hear it anyway.  I think Ennis is apologizing for his abrupt departure on the 'morning after' and his earlier rejection of Jack.
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Offline kallyn

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2006, 11:28:34 am »
I'm in the camp of people who hear "I'm sorry" from Ennis and Two "S'allright's" from Jack.  I know Ennis' lips do not move :).  I hear it anyway.  I think Ennis is apologizing for his abrupt departure on the 'morning after' and his earlier rejection of Jack.

I forgot to weigh in on the "I'm sorry" issue before...  I'm in the camp of people who definitely hear "I'm sorry" coming from Ennis.  I swear (no pun intended) that I heard it all 5 times in the theatre.  It never even crossed my mind to question it until I started reading some of the online debates.  But, I can understand why some people don't think it's there. 

My initial impression before I ever came to these boards was that Ennis was saying "I'm sorry" and then Jack said "s'alright."  I also thought that Ennis's "I'm sorry" encompassed a lot of (sometimes contradictory) things - he was sorry that he was coming on to Jack because guys aren't supposed to do that, he was sorry for being skittish and inexperienced, he was sorry for ignoring Jack earlier.  I also think it was a way to gauge Jack's feelings by seeing what his reaction to the "sorry" was.

Offline Kelda

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2006, 11:41:32 am »
welsome callyn.

If you want to read the original short story I have a copy I can email you. just PM me.

as for your reacton very similar to mine. thougth it was v sad movie and good, has a few tears in my eyes at the film. and then it just kept coming back to me over the next few days... and I joined IMDB and it all went from there
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Offline mlewisusc

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 01:03:55 am »
So many, many folks here now (and on the old IMDB boards) really had this experience - after the first viewing of the film, not such a big reaction - but within 48 hours to seven days later, absolute sadness, and unwavering fascination.  Be prepared for a difficult but worthwhile emotional roller coaster ride, and an intense interest that borders on obsession. ;)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 04:56:30 pm »
Getting back to Lureen's hair for a moment. Some people here may be too young to know this -- and actually I almost am, myself -- but back in the '50s and '60s women who felt the spark was going out of their marriage were routinely advised to lighten their hair. There's an old "Dick Van Dyke Show" about this (Laura decides to bleach her hair because she feels Rob's interest is waning, but changes her mind midway through and winds up with hair that's half platinum blonde, half brunette). And I recently read "The Feminine Mystique" (1963) and saw a mention there of women doing this.

So what a great metaphor! Not only is it an actual historical practice, but it's a physical manifestation of Lureen's increasing brittleness and dependence on superficial appearance.




Offline brokebackjack

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2006, 05:33:45 am »
Not only that re Lureen's hair, but it symbolised how the life and color was draining out of her soul from the stresses of being married to Jack.
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: newcomer from HBO with some questions!
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 08:55:57 pm »
Getting back to Lureen's hair for a moment. Some people here may be too young to know this -- and actually I almost am, myself -- but back in the '50s and '60s women who felt the spark was going out of their marriage were routinely advised to lighten their hair. There's an old "Dick Van Dyke Show" about this (Laura decides to bleach her hair because she feels Rob's interest is waning, but changes her mind midway through and winds up with hair that's half platinum blonde, half brunette). And I recently read "The Feminine Mystique" (1963) and saw a mention there of women doing this.

So what a great metaphor! Not only is it an actual historical practice, but it's a physical manifestation of Lureen's increasing brittleness and dependence on superficial appearance.


Hey Katherine!

Thanks Bud!  That's quite an interesting little bit of social history.  It certainly makes lots of sense in the context of the movie.  Maybe her lightened hair is also a comment on the conservative environment that they were all living in... (behind the times, etc.).  I mean Lureen's hair was in its most dramatic stages of getting progressively lighter in the late '70s and early '80s.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie