Author Topic: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?  (Read 3252 times)

Offline Karan13

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If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« on: November 28, 2006, 07:28:52 pm »
Would you feel the same about the movie ? , would you change it , if so how ?,

I have often wondered if the setting of the movie changes anything, here in a big city in the uk it would as same sex relationships are not uncommon , but as everywhere certain groups still challenge what they see is different , and they don`t understand. Would it of been easier for Ennis and Jack or the same , i have heard that a lot of small towns are still very `Old Fashioned` and stuck in their ways and ideals , is this true for you, ? let me know i`d love to hear your thougts , and soz if this has been covered already. xxx kaz
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Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 01:43:19 am »
Unfortuately a lot of what we see in the film in Rural Wyoming 1963 still exists today in 2006.  That is why this movie is so important and relevant now more than ever!

Offline 2robots4u

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2006, 04:14:09 pm »
Small town America hasn't changed much in the last 50 years, and when it does, it is a very slow process.  If you were to go to a small town in rural Wyoming today, you would think you had just wandered onto the set of BBM.  Attitudes towards homosexuality are also pretty much the same; witness the Matthew Sheppard incident of several years ago.  In case you don't know, Matthew was a young college student who was attached, beaten to death (so the attackers thought) and tied in crusifix style to a fence on a lonely country road.  He died before anyone found him, and he was attacked because he was gay.  As modern inventions, such as the Internet, i-Pods, etc., begin to appear in these small towns, changes will occur...slowly...but they will occur.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2006, 04:39:12 pm »
I would like to think things in the rural west are slightly better than they were in 1963, but have only visited there and can't speak for them. In my own life and home I am amazed at the advances I have seen. I remain hopeful for our future.
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Offline Kd5000

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2006, 09:13:58 pm »
Is is Casper or Cheyenne that has a gay mayor?  Don't think that would have been possible in the 1960's or 1970's.  Homosexuality is far more talked about and gets much more airplay then back then.. There's the internet as well.  Gay characters on tv and in the movies who aren't as sterotyped as in the 1960's.

I'd like to think  Jack and Ennis would have an easier time living together in rural America then the 1960's. 

I would actually say the worse situation for gays might be in some of Amerca's hard core inner cities, where life can be brutal and homophobia pervades much of the culture. 

Yes, Matthew Shepherd made news. It was a hate crime. In the 1960's, some kid gets beat to death in Laramie, WY and nobody is saying why. THe rest of the country isn't clued in at all. It's a non-event and the family want's to maintain privacy and word not to get out about their son's sexuality.  Maybe the perpetrators could have pleaded "homosexual panic" if it went to trial.


Offline TexRob

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If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 09:41:54 pm »
Would you feel the same about the movie ? , would you change it , if so how ?,

I have often wondered if the setting of the movie changes anything, here in a big city in the uk it would as same sex relationships are not uncommon , but as everywhere certain groups still challenge what they see is different , and they don`t understand. Would it of been easier for Ennis and Jack or the same , i have heard that a lot of small towns are still very `Old Fashioned` and stuck in their ways and ideals , is this true for you, ? let me know i`d love to hear your thougts , and soz if this has been covered already. xxx kaz

Hi Karan --

I live in a small-town area of the United States.  The attitude here is downright hateful toward gays and lesbians, but what's different in 2006 is that society cannot insulate itself from the existence of gays or from exposure to gays in the broader culture. 

Being gay in 2006 is significantly different from what it was in 1963.  BBM at its core is  an exposé of the closet, something that no other work of art I know of has ever successfully attempted.  The closet that exists in 2006 is still here, but it's greatly constrained, if for no other reason than for the fact that everyone is aware of its existence.  Advancing technology, in any case, makes closet doors much harder to keep shut. 

On Austin City Limits I saw Franz Ferdinand perform for the first time a few days ago.  I was blown away at the degree of homoerotocism in their lyrics, not to mention the music and that smoking hot Alex Kapranov.  I couldn't help but notice the members of the audience who were visibly uncomfortable at some points, but at the same time this was a mainstream music program being televised to every household, no matter how conservative. 

Put another way, if you're gay today and growing up in a fundamentalist household, the popular culture is reaching in towards you with a degree of validation that was inconceivable when I was growing up in the seventies.   For that reason, I don't think a movie whose central theme is the devastation of the closet could convincingly be done in our current milieu, even if set in the rural United States.

Perhaps some future, foreign movie for people in the Middle East could successfully use the Middle East of 2006 as just such a backdrop, but it would be for a non-Western, non-English-speaking culture -- Arab or Persian, for example.  The Western version could not have been dated more that 10-15 years past a 1963 beginning without seeming like just a bit of a stretch.


« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 09:49:41 pm by TexRob »

Marge_Innavera

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 10:03:52 am »
Would you feel the same about the movie ? , would you change it , if so how ?,

I have often wondered if the setting of the movie changes anything, here in a big city in the uk it would as same sex relationships are not uncommon , but as everywhere certain groups still challenge what they see is different , and they don`t understand. Would it of been easier for Ennis and Jack or the same , i have heard that a lot of small towns are still very `Old Fashioned` and stuck in their ways and ideals , is this true for you, ? let me know i`d love to hear your thougts , and soz if this has been covered already. xxx kaz

First of all, IMO people who claim that nothing has changed since 1963 have either been asleep for four decades or are in throes of historical ignorance that is truly frightening.  You don't even have to go back to the beginning of the story to see that -- I've talked with some people that I'd swear think indoor plumbing didn't exist in the 1980s.

In 1963 in the US, homosexuality was considered to be a mental disorder. It was totally acceptable, legally and socially, for same-sex couples, especially men, to be arrested if there was any evidence of a sexual relationship; they didn't even have to be caught at anything. And it was a virtually taboo subject anyway: movies that had any reference to same-sex relationships at all, such as The Children's Hour and Advise and Consent, had to be very cautious about language and keep their references very obscure. The only appearance of a homosexual in a 1960s movie that I can recall is a scene in Advise and Consent, and the character very much conformed to the stereotype of "queers" back then - pale, flabby, living in a dark urban hovel; much like something you'd find under a rock or a rotted log. 

The film has a scene in which Ennis is watching television, and there's a TV in his trailer in the last scene, so we can assume that he does see some of the outside world through that window. And there would have been no gay people in the window in the early 1960s. Zilch. Zip. Zero. None., and that would have started to change by the 1970s. Were there, and are there still, stereotypes of gay people on TV? Sure there were, and are. And you still see stereotypes of blacks, women and various ethnic groups too, but the changes, frustratingly slow as they have been, have been happening all along. And of course, from the 1970s on, issues about gay rights and AIDS would have been part of the TV scene that Ennis watched as well.  That doesn't mean that he wouldn't still have had the same fears and lack of self-acceptance but he would have had some exposure to the social changes. It's easy to dismiss TV as just entertainment, but IMO Pauline Kael had it exactly right in her summary of its cultural impact on the last half of the 20th century: about equivalent to the impact of the Roman Catholic Church in medieval Europe.

And Ennis wouldn't have had to be watching TV to be exposed to some of the social changes that had taken place since he was 19.  Riverton of 2006, or even the mid-1990s, would have been a very different place from Riverton of the 1960s. Since the mid-century, many ranches near towns in Rocky Mountain states have been bought by developers and carved up into large-lot subdivisions with the homes referred to as "ranchettes" and other similar euphemisms. And they aren't being bought by people from towns like Sage and Lightning Flat; they're bought by people from urban and suburban backgrounds. Riverton would have still been a fairly small community but unless Ennis became a recluse after Jack's death he would have had more and more contact over time with people who did not have rural backgrounds.

I grew up in big cities and suburbs, but in 1995 my husband and I moved to a small town about 50 miles southeast of Kansas City: population 2,500 in the city limits, about 3,000 counting the surrounding rural area.  Is it a very conservative culture? You bet it is. But the people here see the same cultural changes going on that everyone else does, and it isn't just because the town is close to a big city. I bought my full-screen edition of Brokeback here in our combination dime store/Radio Shack outlet, it's for rent at the town's independent video store and at a convenience store and the local library system has a copy. That sounds like a small thing, but as someone who remembers the 1960s fairly clearly, I can tell you that movie or book with sympathetic gay characters would have been the center of a censorship firestorm even in the big cities. The big dramatic changes in societies are as often as not the end product of social changes that take place in just these tiny steps.

And, you can bet that Alma wouldn't have been quite so naive. She would have suspected some things based on their sex life, and would have been quicker to notice that when his old "fishing buddy" is coming to visit he spruces up like he's going out on a date.  Alma might not have been exactly worldly, but if this story was taking place today she wouldn't have had to see her husband and his friend kissing on a stairway to start getting a clue.

IMO, Ennis would have had the same problems if he was born in 1963 or 1983 instead of 1943, but after his meeting with Jack he couldn't possibly have been in that much denial about it.  Maybe they still wouldn't have had that sweet life together, maybe they would; but they both would have had a radically different view of their situation and their sexuality. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have encountered a lot of homophobia in Wyoming today but they would have been aware of many more alternatives.


« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 10:15:23 am by Marge_Innavera »

Marge_Innavera

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 10:12:25 am »
Is is Casper or Cheyenne that has a gay mayor?  Don't think that would have been possible in the 1960's or 1970's.  Homosexuality is far more talked about and gets much more airplay then back then.. There's the internet as well.  Gay characters on tv and in the movies who aren't as sterotyped as in the 1960's.

Yes, Matthew Shepherd made news. It was a hate crime. In the 1960's, some kid gets beat to death in Laramie, WY and nobody is saying why. THe rest of the country isn't clued in at all. It's a non-event and the family want's to maintain privacy and word not to get out about their son's sexuality.  Maybe the perpetrators could have pleaded "homosexual panic" if it went to trial.

The gay mayor is in Casper; he appeared on Larry King when Brokeback was being discussed on the show.

And yes, the very fact that Matthew Sheperd's murder was national news is evidence of change, too; despite the plethora of nice pious people who tried to rationalize it away or blame the victim. In the 1960s, the murder itself would have been reported but it would have been just referred to as an assault. If if the murderers did go to trial, there's a much better chance they would have been acquitted: most juries in the 1960s would have bought the story that they were defending themselves against a dangerous "pervert."

Offline David

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Re: If Brokeback was set in 2006 ?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2006, 10:18:08 am »
2006?

   Well,  Jack could still be in Texas, married with a child.   And when not getting drunk he'd be on the internet sneeking a look at porn.  Maybe even in chat rooms looking for a lonely rancher.

   Ennis is Riverton could still be poor.     He may or may not have a computer, but he could go to the library and use their internet to send Jack emails instead of postcards.
Jack could even buy him one of those cell phones that you pre-load with paid minutes.   

   The obstical then was Ennis, not the times.    Even today Ennis probably wouldn't want to ranch up with another guy and feel the worlds eyes on them.    It all goes back to his childhood and his father.