Author Topic: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers  (Read 5237 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« on: February 12, 2007, 07:24:04 pm »
Join me here in a discussion of the movie Maurice, recommended by BetterMostians!!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 04:04:19 pm by Front-Ranger »
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 07:40:26 pm »
Hurray! I absolutely love this movie, Lee..  :D


My first contribution..something I did a while back ..   




Where shall we begin?  :)


Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 01:22:23 pm »
Thanks, Milli!

While watching this movie last night the first thing I noticed is that Maurice is pronounced like Morris!!!

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 02:01:36 pm »
Watching Maurice made me appreciate Ang Lee because he encouraged the actors to be rough and manly in their lovemaking, whereas Merchant and Ivory had the actors treating each other as if they were made of china, LOL!

I had the urge to physically push those guys together!
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2007, 02:10:42 pm »
One of my absolute fave scenes from the movie:

When they were sitting in Maurice's room after the "vac" and they were asking each other how their holidays were ..
and how they slowly touched each other, ever so gently, then hugged and almost kissed before the other lads barged in and destroyed the moment.  I love that scene - it was so well done .. their feelings were palpable.   :)



Remember when they skipped classes that day and spent the afternoon in the fields, Clive wouldn't let Maurice kiss him.  I always wondered why .. They were obviously attracted to each other and were falling in love .. But when Maurice tried to kiss him, Clive said "No..don't.  I think it'll bring us down..".  What did he mean by that?  Thoughts?  :)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 02:15:39 pm by Lucise »


Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2007, 02:12:25 pm »
Watching Maurice made me appreciate Ang Lee because he encouraged the actors to be rough and manly in their lovemaking, whereas Merchant and Ivory had the actors treating each other as if they were made of china, LOL!

I had the urge to physically push those guys together!

I know .. But I guess things were more delicate back then ..
Afterall, Maurice and Clive were Cambridge scholars, I am sure they were expected to act like gentlemen!  ;)


Offline Kd5000

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2007, 02:14:44 pm »
I have not seen that movie in some time.  There were some really romantic scenes from what I remember.  Howard's End, Maurice and A Room With A View are my favorite Merchant and Ivory films. 

I remember in Maurice that the teacher had drawn something in the sand on the beach with a stick while trying to explain the birds and the bees to the main character...  The teacher forgot to remove his drawings and the waves didn't come in time. Some proper women stumbled upon it and were quite shocked. This was at the film's beginning.

I also remember the main character going to a charlatan looking to get cured of his homosexuality and him confiding in a friend that he's got the Oscar Wilde disease.  The friend said nonsense and he just hasn't found the right women. Something to that effect.

It's a good film.  The book was written in the early part of the 20th century but wasn't published until after the author's death in the 1960's.

I won't write anymore as I don't want to give away anything.  ;)

Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2007, 02:18:47 pm »
I also remember the main character going to a charlatan looking to get cured of his homosexuality and him confiding in a friend that he's got the Oscar Wilde disease.  The friend said nonsense and he just hasn't found the right women. Something to that effect.


Another great scene.
I believe the doctor he was consulting was his father.  Right? 
It was heartbreaking when he said: "In my own sick way, I have kept myself clean" .. I'm an unspeakable of the Oscar Wilde sort." .."Am I diseased?  Can I be cured?" 
So sad ..  :-\


Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 02:38:15 pm »
It has been along time since I saw it too, I think I will have to watch it again.

If I am remembering right, it is belived Forster wrote the story about 1908, but may not have shown it to anyone. It was discovered after his death in 1970 and published then.

I love line Wayne reminded me of recently, Scudder saying: "And don't delay!"
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 02:46:02 pm »
From Wikipedia I have this bit about E.M. Forster that reminded me of Ennis:

"He traveled in Egypt, Germany and India with the classicist Goldsworthy Lowes Dickinson in 1914. Doing war work for the Red Cross in Egypt, in the winter of 1916-17, he met in Alexandria a tram conductor, Mohammed el-Adl, a youth of seventeen with whom he fell in love and who was to become one of the principal inspirations for his literary work. Mohammed died of tuberculosis in Alexandria in spring of 1922. After this loss, Forster was driven to keep the memory of the youth alive, and attempted to do so in the form of a book-length letter, preserved at King's College, Cambridge. The letter begins with the quote from A.E. Housman "Good-night, my lad, for nought's eternal; No league of ours, for sure" and concludes with an acknowledgement that the task of resurrecting their love is impossible."
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Lumière

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,283
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 02:56:38 pm »

I love line Wayne reminded me of recently, Scudder saying: "And don't delay!"

Me too ..

Love this too.. :)

[writing a letter to Maurice]
" Pretend to the other gentlemen that you want a strout. It's easily managed. Then come down to the boathouse. Dear Sir, let me share with you once before leaving Old England if it's not asking too much. "


Offline belbbmfan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,354
  • A love that will never grow old
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 03:04:20 pm »
God, now I really want to see that movie again. I haven't seen it since the last time i saw in the theatre, which was 20 years ago  :o. I was studying for my first year exams at university then. Things were tough for me then, not just because of the exams. I have very fond memories of the movie Maurice being one of the things that lifted my spirits all those years ago.
There was hope, not everything had to end in tears...

'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 04:03:44 pm »
I think that is what I liked most about the film--it had a happy ending! I hope I haven't given too much away!!

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2007, 04:54:21 pm »
Maybe we should ask "scudder" if he/she has anything to say about this movie!!

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Kerry

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,076
  • ^ In pursuit of Captain Moonlite - 5 Sept 2009
    • Google Profile
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 08:13:37 am »

I rather like this (very gay) review of Maurice, found on the Net at www.mattviews.wordpress.com/2007/01/15/64-maurice-e-m-forster (beware spoilers) . . .

Written in 1914, first published in 1971. Must-read for every gay man.

Very few, perhaps none of the contemporary gay fiction paints a more authentic, true-to-life picture of how a coming-of-age gay man is torn between his sexuality and the need to assimilate to social and cultural constructions of the “normal” than E. M. Forster’s Maurice does. Perhaps the fact that it was written before our time, prior to any of the gay activism and social awareness, renders it feasible to afford such brilliant verisimilitude. Forster does not offer any explanation nor attempts any effort to justify his protagonist’s queerness. The result is an honest, often heart-breaking and at times poignant map of emotions, inner-working of a tortured mind.

Maurice follows the teenage boy through public school, then Cambridge, when his undefined flesh received the first blow of reality, and finally his father’s firm. Like many gay men who have yet to fling open the closet door, Maurice senses the hostility that envelops many gay men before they even have the tiniest clue what all the social taboos refer to. Growing in what he calls “normal” social and domestic milieu, he conceives that assimilation to this “normality” founded on a phony morality contriving to validate heterosexuality the rule of the game. He meets someone who has too strong an acumen of right and wrong and who lays down the lines on which the unusual relationship shall proceed, and who nudges the relationship to a direction of platonic restraint. Clive, who always feels threatened that he will lose his salvation, found himself at an early age crossed at having this “other desire.” Clive’s desire to pull out of their relationship, to be with a woman who would secure him and diminish his lust, to become a “normal man”–strikes him a hard blow and transforms his repulsion and misgiving into shame. Peals of dismay overwhelms him as he becomes convinced, from his suffering to the full hilt, that one must be “normal” to have dignity.

The course of Maurice’s self-enlightenment is one of utter inspiration. His coming to term to his sexuality and his identity reaffirms that the gravitas of humanity is the ability to love freely. If there is only one thing in his life that he is being real, that would be his desire. He realizes how much he has overcome, that for years after living in the shadow of his deceased father, whom his family expected him to model in such taken-for-granted manner, his fear and stigma. Once he comes to grasp the desire (the longing for men, the adoration of men…) should be self-validating and there is no need to attach a punitive name to this desire (the truth of his feeling), he has triumphed over his self and finds a way to a niche behind the world’s judgments.

Maurice, despite the fact that it was ahead of its time when written, speaks the truth of the hearts of many who are stricken by the very stigma, shame, and fear decades later. It reassures us that assimilating to any normality, or abiding by any standards does not give us dignity. Instead dignity manifests itself and comes to engulf us without our knowing when we are at ease with who we are. What makes a profound impression on me about the novel is not the gay protagonist, but the inexplicable loneliness Maurice has to live and to persevere. Maurice seems to hold the key to trouble but deep inside he is rather a simple-lifer who searches for love and wants to be loved. It makes me realize someimes there are maladies in life so strange that one has to pass through them in order to attain the true happiness.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2007, 11:19:40 am »
In one of the early scenes, the students are sitting around taking turns translating Plato's Symposium from the Greek with their professor. It's about love among men. Suddenly, the professor breaks in and says, "Pass over the unspeakable vice of the Greeks." Later while rowing on the Thames (?) they are all having a laugh over it. Greece appears several other times in the movie. I've noticed the depiction of Latin and Mediterranean countries as symbolic of a more passionate way of living fo in several Merchant/Ivory films. In another spot, the psychiatrist, played by Ben Kingsley, says, "The British have never been tolerant of human nature." (This quote is not quite right--can someone help me out?)

'Nother thing: Ben Kingsley plays the psychiatrist with an American accent--why is this?

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 12:31:59 am »
When we first meet Scudder, we are tempted to think of him as a slacker, and as someone who scorns the English nobility. But he is much different than that--early on we see him watching Maurice at the window, and he laughs joyfully as Maurice hangs out the window to drench himself in the rain. I then began to think of him as a naif, an innocent being who revels in the beauty and hedonism of nature.

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 07:49:30 am »
Did anybody else recognise Denholm Elliott as the Doctor?

He is more famous for playing the sidekick to Indiana Jones as Marcus Brody.   He was also the Butler in the 1980s movie "Trading Places" with Eddie Murphy.

Elliott was bisexual and married.  He was diagnosed with AIDS in 1988 and sadly passed away in 1992.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 07:15:33 am by DavidinHartford »

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 08:50:18 am »
He was also very good as the father in A Room with A View. I didn't realize he was no longer with us! In Maurice he was the doctor but also was Maurice's father. I liked him--he didn't think Maurice had to continue at Cambridge and had some progressive views, for England anyway.

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Überlibran

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 04:18:48 pm »
I had to come here and comment because my signature is a quote from the movie! Maurice is one of my all-time favorite films, and it's nice to know there are people on the board who love it also.

Quote
In another spot, the psychiatrist, played by Ben Kingsley, says, "The British have never been tolerant of human nature." (This quote is not quite right--can someone help me out?)

'Nother thing: Ben Kingsley plays the psychiatrist with an American accent--why is this?

Front Ranger- I think Maurice's psychiatrist had an American accent in the book, but no explanation was given why. I guess they just kept that for the movie.  Also, the quote you're looking for is "England has always been disinclined to accept human nature." Very interesting observation...
One must talk, talk, talk - it is only by talking that we shall caper upon the summit; otherwise the mountains will overshadow us.

http://users.livejournal.com/_sepia

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 04:25:31 pm »
Thanks for correcting the quote! Could there be a clue regarding the American accent in another part of the movie where at dinner several people are discussing foreign travel and one of them, who is going to Greece, says he'd rather be going to America? Also, scudder is planning to emigrate to the U.S.
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2007, 12:05:00 am »
A friend advised me that it helps to understand the movie by reading the book! And there is some good commentary attached to the book. So, I'm going to pick it up asap. I'm glad this forum covers both books AND movies!!
When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

Offline Überlibran

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2007, 01:54:11 pm »
A friend advised me that it helps to understand the movie by reading the book! And there is some good commentary attached to the book. So, I'm going to pick it up asap. I'm glad this forum covers both books AND movies!!

It's a fantastic book, if a little 'choppy' since I believe it was written in 1913 or 1914 and the manuscript was 'discovered' after  E.M. Forster's death, with instructions to publish it upon the event of his demise.
One must talk, talk, talk - it is only by talking that we shall caper upon the summit; otherwise the mountains will overshadow us.

http://users.livejournal.com/_sepia

Offline Companyofmen

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 26
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2007, 04:16:13 am »
No it doesn't help to read the book to understand te movie! Reading the book, you develop sucvh a healthy hatred of Clive Durham (who  NEVER HAS SEX WITH ANYONE--read it carefully!), that you wouldn't even see the movie!

                        (twistedude)

And that last scene in the movie of Durham looking out ther window and imaginging Maurice as he was at the university--not in the book at all.

Some of Forster's short stories (from the "unpublished during his lifetime" years) are wonderful. I didn't get much out of this book. Till Maurice finds himself a boyfriend..that's very nice.

                             (twistedude)
Reporter to Gandhi: What do you think of western civilization?
Gandhi: I think it would be a very good idea.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,843
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2007, 05:48:50 pm »
Our johnbeene, the BBQ's welcome man at the airport and chef extraordinaire, reminds me very much of Scudder. All you BBQers, do you concur??

 8)

When you see the smiley face in the sky, the pandemic will be over!

mvansand76

  • Guest
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2007, 05:04:34 pm »
Thanks for correcting the quote! Could there be a clue regarding the American accent in another part of the movie where at dinner several people are discussing foreign travel and one of them, who is going to Greece, says he'd rather be going to America? Also, scudder is planning to emigrate to the U.S.

At one point Maurice was thinking of travelling to the US, but Alec was planning on emigrating to Argentina if I am not mistaken!

I watched the movie again today, it has been a while. I have the DVD with a whole DVD of extras and it's wonderful!

Was thinking about the scene in the hotel room and how much it resembles the motel scene in BBM! Anyone notice that?

Offline Casey Cornelius

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2007, 12:13:08 am »
Snavel del Snuit:

I'd second your excitement of having the DVD extras on the Criterion/Merchant-Ivory edition.
It's fascinating to think that the film-makers had contemplated a completely different structure for the
film and it's terrific to have remnants of it and the deleted scenes available to judge how different a film it might have turned out to be.
 
Much as a large number of our BetterMost Brokies [whom I recently had a chance to finally meet on the Alberta Pilgrimage while here in Calgary - including this thread's initiator, Front-Ranger] searched for Brokeback locations, I started to search out the Maurice film locations last month while on vacation in London.  Did not devote a lot of time to it, but did manage to find and experience:

1] the corner in the British Musem where Scudder and Maurice check out and comment on the massive Assyrian sculptures before being interrupted by Simon Callow playing the old schoolmaster Mr. Ducie;
2] the Blackfriars Pub in The City directly opposite the Blackfriars Station at the north end of the Blackfriars Bridge over the Thames - the place where viscount Risley cruises and flirts with the Guardsman before being entrapped and charged with solicitiation and corruption of 'his social inferior' [love that line in the film as representative of its other great theme - Edwardian British class inequality];
3] Wigmore Hall, where Maurice and Clive attend a concert and the latter begins the rebuffs which start their break-up.

Plan to seek out other London locations next trip.  Would love to be able to track down Maurice's stock agent's office,
but I cannot find any web info about a lot of the other locations including it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 06:55:07 pm by Casey Cornelius »
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand ...

Offline Wojtek

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: Movie Discussion: Maurice: caution-spoilers
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2020, 03:09:49 am »
I recently saw the movie and stumbled upon this thread.  One thing I'd like to touch on is: Isn't Clive sort of like Ennis?

Surely not in the manner of speaking or dressing or anything else on the outside.  But I hope you catch my drift.  He may even be a more extreme variation of Ennis.  Morbidly overcome by fear and bottling up his true feelings to such a degree that he's a complete phony.  Not only does he torture himself by denying his true desires, but he also slyly and repeatedly wears down Maurice and neglects his wife whom he's evidently married to move further up the social scale.  If that's not one cunning, callous fraud then I don't know who is. 

That being said, can I really blame him?  The selfish bastard's just trying to feel safe.