X-MAN AGAINST GAY TELEVISION

[serious crayons]

This kind of posting mystifies and angers me because it is based on a deliberate misreading of my posting which has led to a silly outrage

As I said, I was barely outraged enough to take the time to respond to your comment the first time because it just seemed so ill-considered and ignorant. But ignorant in a boring way, not worth getting into a ridiculous back and forth about. But [*sigh*] here we are. So I'll post my response, read yours if you make one, either respond to it or not, and then be done with your blog. There are other blogs and a whole wide internet out there that are far more worth my time.

My original posting about the button-pushing was prefaced by my comment that this was what came into my mind when things looked dark and grim, and came unbidden and unwelcome, and tentative.

Hmm. Let's revisit the preface to your original comment:

the grimmer part of me tentatively believes

You do mention "grim" and "tentative." I'm not seeing the part where you also said "dark," "unbidden" and "unwelcome." It sounded to me like you were admitting that, pessimistic though it might sound, you at least partly believe it.

How horrifying that anyone could even THINK of criticizing the straight world for its history of brutality and murder aigainst the gay community!

This part is so absurd that it tires me to even take on the argument -- and as many here can attest, I do not tire of arguments easily. Apparently what you're saying here is that I can't stand anyone criticizing straight people for committing violence, oppression and bigotry against gay people. This is an accusation you're making to someone who's been active on a Brokeback Mountain discussion board for more than nine years. Tell you what, somehow over those nine years of frequently discussing issues surrounding anti-gay discrimination and violence, not to mention getting into roughly 10 million arguments, this is the first time anyone has lobbed that one at me.

But if it helps to reassure you, x-man, I do recognize that such violence exists. Heck, if nothing else, I would have discovered it when I watched "Brokeback Mountain." But in fact, having read a newspaper or two in my lifetime, even the movie's horrifying depiction was not news to me. Not only do I encourage criticism of it, I would emphatically contribute to such criticism. As fucking any non-troll on this entire site would. Obviously. Jesus.

Oh but wait! Let's s again revisit what you actually said the first time. You were not talking about criticism of the straight community as a whole for acts of anti-gay violence throughout history. You were talking about an imaginary scenario in which (italics and question marks added)

even the most gay-friendly, had the chance to get rid of the LGBT problem [? ?? ??] for good, by simply pushing a button and we would all disappear--no one would get hurt, we would just disappear--that they would push the button without hesitation, believing they were doing the world a favour

This is so completely different from what you said above. I have to wonder if you read your own post. Again, you weren't talking about Ennis' dad here. You were talking about THE MOST GAY FRIENDLY people. You were talking about IF THEY COULD PUSH A BUTTON AND ELIMINATE ALL GAY PEOPLE. You said THEY WOULD do that WITHOUT HESITATION, feeling THEY WERE DOING THE WORLD A FAVOR. Like, Bye Jeff! Bye Milo! Bye Chuck! Sorry to have to do this, guys, but you've been destroying the world!

None of that even makes sense. I would recommend that the non-grim part of you tell the grim part of you to at least think through the logic or what it's saying. I explained earlier why that contention is ridiculous; you can look up my previous post yourself.

  Save your faux dismay for somebody else.  I'm not buying it.  I never buy intellectual dishonesty.

Fine by me. Like I said, there are other blogs on BetterMost and, beyond that, a whole beckoning internet.

[x-man]

Serious crayons writes, "None of that even makes sense."

Of course it doesn't--that was MY point.  I'm not going to defend the idea that the button-pushing business was logical, accurate, or even what I really believe.  I was saying that such thoughts come into my mind when things are looking bad in regard to matters LGBT--they come into my mind unbidden, undesired, and ultimately not accepted.  You want to spend your efforts being outraged about what you perceived as a bashing of straight people.  I wanted to make the point that a life of enduring homophobia can lead to such thoughts.  My whole argument was one of emotion, not logic, as should have been clear to you.  I am not going to go through it piece by piece as you did above.  What's the point?  We are not arguing a director's idea of motivation in the latest film you have reviewed.  We've done that sort of thing elsewhere, and lots of interesting things come out.  What is happening with this argument is flogging a dead horse, hunting last year's wolf.

I am an emotional and passionate man, perhaps to a fault. Am I not, perhaps, TOO emotional and passionate? some may wonder.  I would point to Rev. 3.15-16:  "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot.  I wish that you were cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm,, and neither hot nor cold, I will spue thee out of my mouth."  I had hoped my previous posting about why I am so taken with this issue would give some indication of where some of that emotion and passion has its origin.  SC, the  herd has moved on.  Let's drop it before any more damage is done.  Nitpicking will only keep antagonisms alive that should be allowed to die.

[CellarDweller]

Cellar Dweller,

You seem to me generally to take a moderate accommodating position.  I like that because I know I need not fear attack  or anxiety (as much as I can be charged with bringing it on myself).  I was afraid you had taken my last posting, on another thread, addressed to you personally, as being all directed to you.  It wasn't,  I started out referring to the quote I gave, but then I was looking elsewhere, and when I said "you" I meant the plural--you all.

I guess that depends on who you talk to.  LOL   I'm sure there are a few people in the past who would feel that my replies have had a bit of acid to them.

Everyone can let their passion overtake them, but that doesn't happen to me often.

[serious crayons]

You want to spend your efforts being outraged about what you perceived as a bashing of straight people.

As I believe I said at least twice, I was NOT outraged by your remark -- far, far from it. Believe me, I see outrageous things on the internet all day long -- things that in many cases actually DO upset or anger me -- and the remark you made was too ridiculous to scratch the surface. The only reason I finally bothered to respond to it was because I thought you were unfairly criticizing butlers fantasy.

Throughout my interactions with you, I have continually felt you ascribed far more investment and emotion in my responses to your comments than has ever existed. I'm sorry, but normally my interest level is actually pretty low.

I would imagine a gay man of your generation has seen a lot of suffering and oppression and injustice, and not only do you have my sympathies for that, in other hands I would be interested in hearing accounts of your experiences.

But I have no interest in interacting with someone whose comments seem designed mainly to stir up drama. And I'm definitely not interest in being called names or serving as your punching bag or standing in as representative for the entire straight community.

So ta ta.

[x-man]

I guess that depends on who you talk to.  LOL   I'm sure there are a few people in the past who would feel that my replies have had a bit of acid to them.

Everyone can let their passion overtake them, but that doesn't happen to me often.

Oso,

YOU with an acid tongue?  Hard to believe.  Perhaps I should count myself lucky that it hasn't yet been turned on me.  Let's hope it never has to be.

Now that I've got you here, I want to talk to you about tattoos, since I regard you as the Tattoo Man (referencing QAF) of BetterMost.  As you know, I recently got back from 6 weeks in Thailand and Malaysia.  From the time I got into the plane in Toronto until the time I got off the plane in Toronto when I got back, I wore tee shirts, so the tattoos on my arms were visible to all.  I was rather surprised by the reactions to them I got.  It started in the Hong Kong airport where I was awaiting a connecting flight to Bangkok.  A little Chinese boy walked passed me and surreptitiously ran his hand across my arm seeming to want to find out if he could feel them on my skin. It was charming.  

I should tell you about the tattoos before I go on.  When I got them, there was a certain look and content I wanted.  I didn't get them all at once, of course, but I had the plan.  I told my tattooer I was aiming at 1) a retro 1950's-60's look, 2) my having been a seaman, 3) looking like they had been put on haphazardly when I was drunk, 4) gay, and most of all 5) a memorial to a Friend (with the last I would have had his name tattooed across my forehead if I thought I could get away with it).  He got what I was after, and did it beautifully.  That's 8 tattoos, 2 outside and 2 inside on each forearm.

In both Thailand and Malaysia I was asked about them.  In Bangkok I was stopped on the street by Western men who complimented me on them.  I was naturally quite flattered.  The reason the tattoos were noticed was because lots of the men had tattoos, but most of them are a sleeve of an intricate floral or mythological theme--very complex, probably very expensive--but basically they were all alike.  I am sure when each guy got his tattoos he thought they were going to be unique, but when he looked around at everybody else's tattoos he saw how common they were.  Until I got to Penang, Malaysia, I did not see anyone with discrete tattoos, looking separate and unique.

The first guy I met in Bangkok was a spectacular muscle bear from Montreal.  He actually WAS a rugby player, playing for a team in Montreal while he studied to become a commercial pilot.  We talked about Canadian politics and tattoos.  He had no tattoos on his arms, and told me that visible tattoos were forbidden by airline companies.  However, he did have tattoos on his thighs--which, he shyly told me, were so muscular they were the size of lots of people's waist.  In fact with the last tattoo he had put on,  the tattooer had to take a break halfway through--in Asia tattooers charge by design and size rather than by the hour, and the tattooer didn't realize what he was getting into.  Anyway, you know me.  I had to force myself NOT to ask to see it.  I'm not THAT slutty, although he was obviously aware of what his body looked like and the effect it had on people seeing it.  He wouldn't be spending all that time in the gym if he didn't.

When I had the first tattoo put on, I was worried that I would soon regret it.  Not to be.  It wasn't long before I realized I really liked them.  I  fight to tell myself NOT to have any more put on, since I want to return to SE Asia next winter and must save my pennies.  Tattoos can be an expensive hobby.  How about you?

[CellarDweller]

I currently have three tattoos, I'm not sure it will ever be more than that.  LOL

I don't regret my tattoos at all, and I'm glad I have each one of them.

[x-man]

I currently have three tattoos, I'm not sure it will ever be more than that.  LOL

I don't regret my tattoos at all, and I'm glad I have each one of them.

Urs,

Only 3?  Come on, my furry friend, 3 is only a start!  What does your boyfriend—or other more casual friends—think about them?  Before I actually got a tattoo, I didn't really like them.  I come out of a generation of people who regard tattoos on men as making them look like hoods or bikers (and I was never into rough trade) and making women with tattoos look like whores.  Now on men they really turn me on (My mouth dropped open when I saw Ryan Gosling bare-chested in Place Beyond the Pines.), and I am neutral when I see them on women.  

Speaking of tattoos on women, the Canadian muscle bear told me that women often have a small tattoo on the small of their backs which he called the “tramp spot.”  I had never heard of this.  He knew I was gay so he explained that the tramp spot was there to provide the man something to aim at, as he put it, when he pulled out.  I didn't ask why a man would do that—I didn't want to be revealed as a total naif—but I am, being a gold star gay with absolutely no experience of women that way.  Later, in a cafe I hung out in, I asked some straight guys, “Why do some women have a tattoo on the small of their backs?”  “Tramp spot!”  They all cried out.  They didn't have an answer.  An American friend  suggested that it might be because of porn movies where they show the man cumming.  He said that people watching the film are not satisfied seeing a pleased  look on the man's face to indicate what had happened.  Well, that may explain it for porn movies, but why would any guy do it in real life?  What's the point of sex at all if you pull out before the climax?  I just don't understand—for straight or for gay sex.  As far as birth control or safe sex are concerned, isn't that what the pill and condoms are for?  Does anyone have any expanation for this phenomenon?
 

[CellarDweller]

My friends like them, my family got used to them.  LOL

My job has a restriction that tats can't be seen at work, so mine are on my upper arms, so I can wear short-sleeve shirts.

[x-man]

My job has a restriction that tats can't be seen at work, so mine are on my upper arms, so I can wear short-sleeve shirts.

Arktos,

Your job has restrictions against visible tattoos too?  I want you to join me in forming the T.L.A., the Tattoo Liberation Army!  We can march, have tattoo die-ins.

This all reminds me of when I grew my beard in 1963 (actually at the same time JFK was assassinated, but that wasn't the reason).  I was in northern BC.  Lots of guys had beards up there, but not down south.  At first I thought I was eventually have to shave it off. Then I realized there was no way anybody was going to make me shave--I've had the same beard (shorter now) for 52 years.  In southern Canada ("civilization") guys would ask me when I was going to shave it off.  Not wanting to waste time, I went straight to the Freudian subtext and answered: "I'll shave off my beard when you cut off your balls."  It shut them up every time.

With tattoos there is a similar problem if you want to teach in other countries.  Before starting they always give you a complete medical physical exam.  In some countries this would be no problem, but in some--like Korea--it would be.  The doctor would look at my tattoos,  see the gay content, and tell my prospective employer, and that would be it because doctors and employers there believe they can intrude on and disapprove of your personal life.  Thus I had no tattoos when I was teaching abroad.  Countries like Korea are so reactionary, if an employer discovers a male employee is having an affair with a female employee, they fire the woman.  I'm not sure what they would do if it were 2 men--probably fire both of them.)  Anyway, since I didn't have any tattoos until after I quit teaching, I never had to face that problem.  The beard was enough for them to cope with--but my academic credentials were such that they would take me beard or no beard.

Does anybody here have more than 8 tattoos?  Or am I the oldest, most tattooed, and biggest trouble-maker in BetterMost?  I can't do much about the first two, but I am working on the last one, and am trying to get my program together.   

[CellarDweller]

More than 8?   Not me for sure.....my younger brother may have that many.