X-MAN AGAINST GAY TELEVISION

[Jeff Wrangler]

OK, I'll show my own ignorance here.

Katherine, was your friend--or were you--speaking hypothetically here, or from actual knowledge?

So if a post-op trans woman gets prostate cancer, the hospital can't deal with it and maybe insurance doesn't pay for it or something.

I would have thought that in male-to-female surgery, the prostate would have been one of the organs to "go," especially if the surgery involved creation of a vagina (I have read somewhere of that being done). But maybe not? 

[x-man]

You might be even more stunned to learn that there are sexual minorities who don't understand the difference either.

I am with you here, Milo.  I was one of them.  When you have the chance, check out my last posting to the TRANSGENDER... blog topic site,  I gave more details about my own situation because I was wondering about a real person who I did know, rather than about the trans community in general.  It is one thing to know that all trans people are unlikely to have the same sexual orientation theoretically, and the case of a specific person.  You guys should know me well enough to know that I refuse to be politically correct to play nicy-nicy.  I can understand logically that trans people must have various sexual orientations without really understanding it.  I did ask my father about this, but he talked around it and never did tell me how he was handling it.

I think that questions about the trans community are important, not only because I have a horse in the race (as we say in Canada), but because here the battle for gay and lesbian rights has been won--at least as far as law is concerned--and the battle has moved to recognition of the trans community.  How are they faring in the States? 

[CellarDweller]

I usually don't like washing gay dirty laundry in public, but this is too good to pass by.  It is a delightful parody of a type of gay man known to us all--the "bitchy queen."  I don't know about you, but I have a hard time dealing with them.  Enjoy.

https://vimeo.com/109852915

Strange video, but I loved the song at the end, it made me laugh.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVFn51VNRVQ[/youtube]

[x-man]

Those kinds of switcheroo comments are funny and make a valid point -- in other contexts.

But butlers fantasy made a serious, valid point. The comment to which he was responding was offensive and, with all due respect, ignorant. I kept meaning to say something about it and then thinking, oh, that's so over-the-top offensive it's not even worth responding to. But let's revisit.

In fact, this isn't just offensive, it's baffling. What exactly is "the LGBT problem" that concerns even gay-friendly straights? How would "getting rid of it for good" be in any way useful to non-homophobic straight people?

In other words, as a straight person, I can't see any way that the existence of gay people negatively affects me. Why would I object if they exist on the earth, or want to do anything about it?

I don't know your ethnicity, but let's say you're white. Would you want to push a button and make all non-white people disappear? I do know you're a man. Do you wish you could eliminate the "woman problem"?

This kind of posting mystifies and angers me because it is based on a deliberate misreading of my posting which has led to a silly outrage showing amazing chutzpah.  My original posting about the button-pushing was prefaced by my comment that this was what came into my mind when things looked dark and grim, and came unbidden and unwelcome, and tentative.  This part seems to have gotten lost in the minds of the two out straight people in the discussion.  How horrifying that anyone could even THINK of criticizing the straight world for its history of brutality and murder aigainst the gay community!  Good God, don't gay people watch TV and movies and can't they be grateful that from time to time they are being portrayed as other than perverted, dangerous psychopaths or as step-n-fetch-it buffoons?   Sorry serious crayons and butlers fantasy, I DO watch but I'm NOT grateful.  If I were grateful, and saw it as our path "to the broad uplands of a brighter tomorrow," I would be just as deluded as you are.  You remind me of the prisoners in Plato's Allegory of the Cave from the Republic—mistaking shadows on the wall for reality.  Tear yourself away from the TV or movie screen for once, and look at reality.  To put it another way, echo the Chilean poet, Pablo Neruda:

send books back to their shelves,
I'm going down into the streets.

If you ever did go down into the streets, you would find a reality very different from one that would support your indignation.  Save your faux dismay for somebody else.  I'm not buying it.  I never buy intellectual dishonesty.

  
 

[Jeff Wrangler]

As for you, Jeff, your cries of enough gay activism, already, I don't buy that either.  Reading your words I was reminded of the three monkeys—one covering his eyes, another covering his ears, and the last one covering his mouth.  I believe every single member of the LGBT community has a moral obligation to be an activist for LGBT rights at least to the degree their ability and circumstance permit them to be.  The real world—not Plato's cave—does not give you licence merely to be  tired of it.  The futures, indeed lives, of your brothers and sisters are depending on you to do what you can—not to ignore the world and watch a rerun of Bewitched. 

Who died and made you God with the right to dictate what others should and should not do?

In the past 25 years I have buried one boyfriend and more friends than I can any longer count. I see far too many younger "brothers" who have no idea and less appreciation for what men of my generation have been through. If you want to die an old man fighting in the trenches, that's your prerogative, but there is also such a thing as passing on the torch to a new generation--since we're quoting others. I'm annoyed by TV show runners proving their liberal cred by adding gay characters now just because "gay" is trendy. Where were they when "gay" wasn't trendy?

I am under no obligation to work to make things better for a younger generation that wouldn't give me the time of day if my watch stopped--and neither are you, though, again, if you choose to, that's your prerogative. Just don't expect to be thanked for it, since the young know everything anyway, and gratitude to their elders is never very high on their list of priorities. If you think they're looking to you to fight for them, you're a fool.

Not that it's any of your damn business, but my priority is first, seeing that my aging and widowed father is well taken care of--with no siblings who might help me with the care and oversight--and second, to be blunt about it, to make sure I'm well cared for as I grow older, since experience has shown me that in the end, we all have to look out for ourselves. Am I selfish? Yes; my life experience has been that I need to be. Gay men can be the most self-absorbed creatures on earth; don't expect younger gay men to be around to help you when you need it.

And reading your blog shows me that you're in no position to complain about posters twisting other people's words.

Get your head out of your ass and go to hell.

[morrobay]

My original posting about the button-pushing was prefaced by my comment that this was what came into my mind when things looked dark and grim, and came unbidden and unwelcome, and tentative.  This part seems to have gotten lost in the minds of the two out straight people in the discussion. 

It didn't get lost - I just find it sad for you that some small dark, grim, tentative part of you believes it.  I'm a straight woman and have no idea of what you've experienced over the years, in a largely gay-hating world.  And nobody's asking you to be grateful for anything. 

How horrifying that anyone could even THINK of criticizing the straight world for its history of brutality and murder aigainst the gay community!  Good God, don't gay people watch TV and movies and can't they be grateful that from time to time they are being portrayed as other than perverted, dangerous psychopaths or as step-n-fetch-it buffoons?   Sorry serious crayons and butlers fantasy, I DO watch but I'm NOT grateful. 

what makes  you think that I view the stereotypes on TV (which I really don't, I think all the current shows including Modern Family unwatchable for many reasons) as realistically representative, or well-written or anything but a money-making ploy to get on the current trend of loving the gays?  It will pass, just like The Jeffersons, when they find the next new minority to court.

As for you, Jeff, your cries of enough gay activism, already, I don't buy that either.  Reading your words I was reminded of the three monkeys—one covering his eyes, another covering his ears, and the last one covering his mouth.  I believe every single member of the LGBT community has a moral obligation to be an activist for LGBT rights at least to the degree their ability and circumstance permit them to be.  The real world—not Plato's cave—does not give you licence merely to be  tired of it.  The futures, indeed lives, of your brothers and sisters are depending on you to do what you can—not to ignore the world and watch a rerun of Bewitched. 
 

Your words to Jeff are quite idiotic, in my opinion, for reasons he has stated well, including your total ignorance of his own personal life situation, and to which i need not add. 
Although i think it's extremely odd that you call on Jeff "to do what you can", yet you think that straights who work for and support your cause are asking you to be grateful for that work?? 

Since i'm not needed, i think i'll go watch another rerun of Bewitched - I LOVE Paul Lynde!

[CellarDweller]

I see  both sides of this discussion.

The generation who has been there and done that should share the knowledge (if asked) instead of just saying "been there, done that".   Sharing that knowledge can be as easy as just being visible in the gay community.  After all, now many times have we heard that gay men had their role models from TV, or simply had none at all?

that being said, not everyone wants to be a role model, nor should they be.  Those that choose not to be should not be the targets of venom and criticism because they have things going on in their real lives, and must tend to them.

[x-man]

Who died and made you God with the right to dictate what others should and should not do?

Get your head out of your ass and go to hell.

Jeff, 

GOTTCHA!  I do believe what I wrote, but I didn't need to say it quite like that. I knew you would rise to the bait and bring some excitement.  Don't hate me--you know my penchant for trying to set a cat amongst the pigeons, as I like to say.  To be fair, Jeff, I DID say we all have a moral obligation to the extent that our ability and situation permit.  Perhaps you have reached the stage where you must pass on the torch, but you do strike me as the sort of person who will not abide homophobic insults to pass you by.  I may have been risky in poking an old bear, but I know that old bear has a good and brave heart.  I wouldn't even want you to change a thing!  Can you forgive me?  Don't hold a grudge--I didn't.  You knew it was going to be intense and edgy when I started this blog.  So hang on, keep the energy level high, and we'll all have an interesting time.  I absolutely refuse to take back any of my compliments about you, no matter how much you trash me!   

butlers fantasy,

You know I like your postings--they are so strange they often leave me quizzical--which I enjoy a lot.  Odd. I could have sworn you were a man.

Cellar Dweller,

You seem to me generally to take a moderate accommodating position.  I like that because I know I need not fear attack  or anxiety (as much as I can be charged with bringing it on myself).  I was afraid you had taken my last posting, on another thread, addressed to you personally, as being all directed to you.  It wasn't,  I started out referring to the quote I gave, but then I was looking elsewhere, and when I said "you" I meant the plural--you all.

[morrobay]

Odd. I could have sworn you were a man.

If I had a dollar for every time someone said that to me-

[milomorris]

The generation who has been there and done that should share the knowledge (if asked) instead of just saying "been there, done that".   Sharing that knowledge can be as easy as just being visible in the gay community.  After all, now many times have we heard that gay men had their role models from TV, or simply had none at all?

I assume when you say "role model," you mean a sexual minority who can be an example for young sexual minorities, as opposed to role models in general...right?