Author Topic: Dream Interpretation  (Read 448178 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #700 on: January 15, 2020, 10:47:33 pm »
I guess the nature of the social breakdown in the book reminds me of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Are you all familiar with it, and if so did you know it's been pretty thoroughly debunked?

The name sounds vaguely familiar. I think I read about it somewhere, once, but I don't remember anything about it.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #701 on: January 16, 2020, 12:03:53 am »
The name sounds vaguely familiar. I think I read about it somewhere, once, but I don't remember anything about it.

If you're not familiar with it, you probably won't be interested in the details, but here goes. When I was in college, I took every psychology and sociology class I could get my hands on. So you'd learn about the Stanford Prison Experiment in Psych 101 and probably other courses as well. In 1971 a Stanford professor divided male students into "guards" and "inmates" and put them in a building together instructed to perform those roles. The guards got slightly brutal (nothing huge or tragic) and the inmates wanted to get the hell out of there, understandably. But now there's evidence the professor had at least subtly coached them -- perhaps not even deliberately but somehow let them understand what he hoped to see happen in the experiment. So they knew what was expected of them. Other conditions also weren't sufficiently empirical (e.g., no control group) and one "guard" even said he was deliberately imitating something he'd seen in the Paul Newman prison movie "Hud."

But for years it was used as evidence that people who follow authorities' orders to exert power over others (the guards) can turn violent and evil. Well, yeah, just like if a theater director tells you, the actor playing the guard, to act bad and evil, you will act bad and evil.  Even if the director doesn't say it that explicitly, but it's still obvious that's the role he wants you to play.

The experiment, as well as, I think, the Stanley Milgram shock experiment, too (which may not have been empirically flawed; can't remember) were designed to try to explain Nazi and how people commit otherwise uncharacteristic brutality if so ordered. Well, Nazis kind of explain that phenomenon better than this experiment did. It's one thing acting nasty to please your professor and another being OK with herding people into ... well, you know. So why not say, Nazis showed it can happen ... because, well, it happened?






Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #702 on: January 16, 2020, 01:19:08 pm »
Thanks. I've definitely heard of the Milgram experiment.

The Paul Newman prison movie is Cool Hand Luke.  Hud is a different film (based on a Larry McMurtry novel, incidentally).
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #703 on: January 16, 2020, 10:40:56 pm »
Thanks. I've definitely heard of the Milgram experiment.

The Paul Newman prison movie is Cool Hand Luke.  Hud is a different film (based on a Larry McMurtry novel, incidentally).


Oh, thank you! I just now glanced through google images of Paul Newman's biggest movies. It would be fun to stream a little Paul Newman festival sometime. Not everything, of course, but the famous ones. I've seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid within the past 20 years, but that's about it -- I haven't seen the others in forever. In many cases, not since they came out. And some not at all, including Hud and Cool Hand Luke. Though in the latter case, I did read the Mad Magazine satire, if that counts.  :laugh:



 

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #704 on: January 25, 2020, 11:34:36 am »
It would be fun to stream a little Paul Newman festival sometime. Not everything, of course, but the famous ones.

What did he do that wasn't famous, memorable, and good??
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #705 on: January 25, 2020, 02:10:47 pm »
What did he do that wasn't famous, memorable, and good??

Is that a question-question or a rhetorical question? Most of his movies were at least two of those three if not all three. He was in some of the most classic, acclaimed films of all time.

But I would probably skip rewatching "The Towering Inferno." And "The Hudsucker Proxy" was the first movie I ever feel asleep watching; the worst Coen Bros. movie ever, IMO. Though as I recall Paul Newman's role in that was small and ended before I dozed off. There are some on his list that I would say are fairly obscure.

But I agree, most of his movies were good and some I haven't seen since they came out and would love to rewatch.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #706 on: January 25, 2020, 08:57:22 pm »
Oh, thank you! I just now glanced through google images of Paul Newman's biggest movies. It would be fun to stream a little Paul Newman festival sometime. Not everything, of course, but the famous ones. I've seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid within the past 20 years, but that's about it -- I haven't seen the others in forever. In many cases, not since they came out. And some not at all, including Hud and Cool Hand Luke. Though in the latter case, I did read the Mad Magazine satire, if that counts.  :laugh:

Best "buddy picture" ever. I think I wore out a videotape of it. Now I have it on DVD. The movie where I fell in love with Robert Redford. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #707 on: January 25, 2020, 09:39:56 pm »
Best "buddy picture" ever. I think I wore out a videotape of it. Now I have it on DVD. The movie where I fell in love with Robert Redford. ...

Oh, same. Totally. And agreed about buddy pictures.

The only sad thing about BCatSK is that Paul Newman was relatively unsexy in that role -- good as he was! In all of his other movies, he was the hottest cast member. But in BCatSK, that was played down. He did not get a fake-rape scene with Katharine Ross (hard to know how to feel about that scene, BTW, in the #metoo era, but at least it was fake). (FYI, in real life, as you probably know, Katharine Ross is married to Sam Elliott.)

I used to think of Brad Pitt as the Robert Redford of his day. Obviously I"m not the only one who's noticed that resemblance, including Brad Pitt and Robert Redford. Seriously, I think when Robert Redford directed "A River Runs Through It," he thought something like, here's the young me.

But now I'm so much more used to Brad Pitt that I think of Robert Redford as the Brad Pitt of his day. Just think -- in BCatSK, Bob was 20+ years younger than Brad is now.



 

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #708 on: January 26, 2020, 11:08:37 am »
...the movie where I fell in love with Robert Redford. ...

And I fell for Katharine Ross! The two male actors were so good they convinced me they should be together, leaving Katharine for me! Sadly, Sam came along and the rest is history. I've had several brushes with the movie and with the history. Once EdelMar and I went up to Central City in the mountains and saw it at the old Opera House. What a great day that was. We also have visited the badlands of Utah and Wyoming where they hung out and even have seen the Hole in the Wall!

That was a rhetorical question, friend, but thank you for answering it anyway. I guess I was not familiar with the lesser works in Newman's oeuvre. I haven't seen Inferno or Hudsucker Proxy, and I didn't know the latter was one of the Coen Brothers'. We should talk about said brothers more, they and their works are interesting. But not on the dream interpretation page; that might lead to bad dreams!
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Dream Interpretation
« Reply #709 on: January 26, 2020, 04:16:28 pm »
that might lead to bad dreams!

 :laugh:

I wonder how many Brokies saw and loved Butch Cassidy. I also loved Alias Smith & Jones, the TV show inspired by that movie. Buddy films are not the same as a love story, of course, but they have that undercurrent, as well as similar settings and sorts of characters. And I was much more into Westerns than buddy films about urban police officers or whatever.

OK, back to dreams! I hardly ever remember mine, so unfortunately I can't contribute at this time.