TOTW 07/07: Was Mr. Twist homophobic?

[optom3]

Seriously, F-R? Wow, I have just the opposite opinion. You are a lucky mother! 

... and online message boards?    I know what you mean, though, and I fear the same thing.

I agree,I wish My oldest was only 1/10th as good as I was at his age. I certainly was not a saint.But my acting out did not start until I was 16.Then granted I gave my parents a hell of a time.
I first caught my oldest smoking and drinking at 11.Which really shocked me.Then having sex at 13 going on 14 shocked me even more.As did the fact that despite all the sex education I had given him,he used no protection.
They act physically older than my generation,but mentally and emotionally,I do not think they are any more mature than I was.They just know a lot more.
Their ability to deal in a mature fashion with that knowledge,seems to be lacking to me.
However they are all different.My 11 year old other son bears no resemblance behaviour wise to his older brother at that age.If anything he is on the immature side.Long may that continue.
As for my space and the like.What goes on there appalls me.We do not let our oldest have a computer in his room,but he is so blatant he does not care what we see.Even down to naked pictures of his girlfriend,at which point I unplugged the modem.Only to have him throw an all time major tantrum.
The girls on my space seem so sexually aggressive,even more so than the boys.That also shocks me.But maybe I am just behind the times.I do not know anymore. I seem to be adrift in a world I do not understand .But maybe that is the case for each new generation of parents.I know my parents were shocked by me at 16.
So we continue to monitor his my space, no time on his own with his new girlfriend,not at our house anyway, and keep on at him about safe sex and protection.Because no matter how much we monitor him,he will find a way if that is his intention!!!!!

[Brown Eyes]

This is such a fascinating thread! 

I'm going way back several pages to quote this little part of one of optom3's posts.

She would not have loved Jack any less, in fact she may have loved him more,in the way we always tend to protect those who need it most.But none of it helped.I guess her worst fears were realised.I would even go so far as to say she probably thought Jack was murdered for his homosexuality.

This is really interesting to me.  We've spent so much time talking amongst ourselves about whether we believe Jack died by accident or was murdered... and we've pondered Ennis's belief system about the murder scenario a lot too.  It seems to be a new angle to think about what OMT and Mrs. Twist believed... Since they're some of the only other characters who have a relatively full picture of what was going on (at least they knew about the relationship with both Ennis and the other fellow).

I think this very well may be correct that the parents also believe that Jack was murdered.  That could seriously effect how they react to Ennis.  Anger and sympathy (i.e. OMT and Mrs. Twist).

[optom3]

This is such a fascinating thread! 

I'm going way back several pages to quote this little part of one of optom3's posts.


This is really interesting to me.  We've spent so much time talking amongst ourselves about whether we believe Jack died by accident or was murdered... and we've pondered Ennis's belief system about the murder scenario a lot too.  It seems to be a new angle to think about what OMT and Mrs. Twist believed... Since their some of the only other characters who have a relatively full picture of what was going on (at least they knew about the relationship with both Ennis and the other fellow).

I think this very well may be correct that the parents also believe that Jack was murdered.  That could seriously effect how they react to Ennis.  Anger and sympathy (i.e. OMT and Mrs. Twist).

I am so glad you picked up on that.I do not think anything beats a mother's intuition.She would I think almost certainly guess that Jack was murdered.But equally because she will have known of her son's love for Ennis, she would be the more sympathetic.She is grieving in the same way Ennis is.It is a mother's more emotionally visible grief.

OMT is also grieving,I think,but his takes the more masculine form of anger.Particularly considering the time and place.He is lashing out in anger at Ennis.He is still grieving,but because of his upbringing,and the fact that he is male,he cannot display his grief in the more conventional way that we would recognise.
I am sure he thinks Jack was murdered as well. I am also fairly sure he blames Ennis,hence the need to wound him.If you had done what my son had wanted he would still be here.
So both Twists grieve,just in different ways.I also think that Mrs Twist is kinder to Ennis,because she probably wants him to visit again.This would give her some continuing,albeit tenuous link to her dead son.
OMT continued link to his son,is to keep the ashes.Because of his anger and blaming of Ennis for Jacks' death,I think he can hardly bear to look at him.Hence his utter contempt.
I am sure it is a male/female thing.When my oldest son was bullied,I just wanted to protect him and keep him safe,while bursting into tears. My husband was just as upset,but his took the form of anger,real rage in fact.He wanted to do serious harm to the bully.
Anyway those are my thoughts on the matter.

[Artiste]

Wow, optom, you say:
    It is a mother's more emotionally visible grief.

OMT is also grieving,I think,but his takes the more masculine form of anger.       
............

So, there are differences in grieving between females and males ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Atz, what you say display a light like optom did:
     I think this very well may be correct that the parents also believe that Jack was murdered.  That could seriously effect how they react to Ennis.  Anger and sympathy (i.e. OMT and Mrs. Twist).


       
...........

I do not know why anyone would think that jack was NOT murdered !!  Why think so ??

Au revoir, hugs! It is obvious by the story, that gay murders do happen, right ??

[Front-Ranger]

So, there are differences in grieving between females and males ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Internally, they are similar, but society teaches boys to hide away their feelings.

Speaking of that, it seems like OMT and Ma Twist are the opposite of what one would expect. OMT's bitter, angry feelings seethe on the surface, while Ma Twist hides her feelings away, clutching at her neck to keep them down, and closeting them, figuratively and literally.