Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 4045144 times)

Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9460 on: June 23, 2007, 11:53:09 am »
question for you rereaders:

Does 'Taking Chances' end with an actual end?  We are considering publishing that book in its entirety, yet it is clear that the search for Adam's killer, and Colson's new job as a horse wrangler, has barely got underway, not to mention the open case against Bill Early.  Are there too many loose ends?  I know that the Harry Potter series had some cliff hangers, but I don't want it to seem as though the book is written just to leave people dangling.  It's good for sales of the next book, but I also want it to have an actual conclusion of its own.



Louise, I need to ponder that a bit, which I'll do during my Saturday errands and chores.  

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9461 on: June 23, 2007, 09:14:28 pm »
Well, I've pondered, and, while I agree that there are loose ends, I do believe there is a conclusion.  I've found the main theme of "Taking Chances" to be just what the title infers - Colson taking a chance by walking into the Red Stallion, which sets off a series of events through which he starts to come to terms with his true self.  He still has a way to go - that is clear - but by the closing lines of the last chapter he has come out to his daughter, moved to a new town, moved in with Ellery, and, for the first time in his life, openly declared his love for his man.  For me, this qualifies as a conclusion.

I don't think I'd consider Colson's new job as a horse wrangler a loose end, so to speak, because he has a firm offer in hand and has accepted.  Yes, it's interesting to see him working and honing his skills and we know that he's going to be learning some new skills regarding paso finos, but I wouldn't really consider those loose ends. 

Of course, the search for Adam's killer and the Bill Early matters are loose ends, and they serve as a important factors in bringing Ellery and Colson closer together, and in Colson's self-discovery, but I don't consider those threads to be the main focus of this first book. 

I've been bringing to mind other series of books that I've enjoyed in thinking about how "loose ends" are handled.   The first series that comes to mind  is the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon.  I believe at this point there are six books in that series with plans for at least two more.  These are hard to define by genre - historical novels mixed with an unorthodox romance, time travel, celtic mysticism, political intrigue and plenty of mystery. By the end of the first book, the only thing that is really "settled" is that the two main characters are together and making plans to escape to a new country, but there are many, many loose ends.  And there are many, many loose ends at the end of each of the five subsequent books in the series, because we keep being introduced to new characters whose own problems become intertwined with the main characters.  Every one of the books in this series ends with a cliffhanger of sorts.  According to the author, one of the main mysteries, introduced at the very beginning of the first book, will not be answered until the last page of the last book.

Another series that comes to mind is the Lymond Chronicles by Dorothy Dunnett. While each book in the series takes place in a different locale with a different set of problems for the hero to overcome, the series also leaves loose ends from book to book, sometimes picking up new mysteries along the way.   

I guess what I'm taking an awful long time to say is that I think there can be a conclusion along with loose ends and cliffhangers - and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.  And in the case of your books - definitely a good thing. 

Hope that helped.  :)

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9462 on: July 01, 2007, 11:01:30 am »
I worked on just this question this week, and also talked with an editor who has proposed serving as our agent in representing the Greenlea County tales, but our discussion is still preliminary.

My proposed idea is to end the first book at chapter 74 and splicing into it part of chapter 79.  Chapter 74 was my original intended ending before adding the pornography ring plot.  And now that I have had time to think about the overarching plots and themes, I am seriously considering removing the porn ring plot and simply leaving the hidden camera and amateur video thing, which would STILL get Bill 10 years if he only had one underage boy in one film.

Then the remaining action of the return to Prescott will go to the next book arc.  this editor told me that your average 'commercial novel' is 20 to 40,000 words. I was stunned!  The SHORTEST Greenlea book installment is 94,000 words.  EGAD!


So I have compiled a synopsis of all of the Greenlea Tales, which, you may not be surprised to know, encompasses the six primary books, which I provided in synopsis form.

And as of today, I am opening up 'Taking Chances' in its revised form, to the public.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9463 on: July 01, 2007, 04:16:24 pm »
and here it is!  Open to the public once more:

http://zebratta.livejournal.com/472.html  "Taking Chances:  Synopsis and Index" with a newly drafted synopsis.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9464 on: July 02, 2007, 11:18:50 pm »
...

and holy mackerel!  The highest hit counts I have had in six months on the website.  Thank you all for reading - it gives me courage that "Taking Chances" in its new form is a viable work to publish.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9465 on: July 08, 2007, 02:24:00 pm »
okay ... I got us into a bit of a dilemma with my epic-sized novels.  As Leslie and I do research on publishing, we discover that outside the genre of science fiction and fantasy, it is extremely rare to get commercial publication of a novel if it exceeds 100,000 words.  "Taking Chances" the Fan version I put on LJ, came to a whopping 156.000 words.  So I took a deep breath and... took a slice out of the cake.  Not permanently, you understand, but I did rework the section on Bill and the porn films and the lopped off section from chapter 75 I am putting into the next book.  Ultimately we expect that "Taking Chances" will be whittled down some, but 120,000 is in the actual novel sized ballpark, and we would like it to be published in that form.  It has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

However, that leaves us in a dilemma.  Version 3 is now on my LJ, and now I need to consider whether to start another LJ for "Looking for Answers" in order to keep the books straight.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9466 on: July 08, 2007, 06:12:48 pm »
and the solution!

tcreader.livejournal.com

Now has the complete "Taking Chances - New Sleek Shorter Edition"

http://tcreader.livejournal.com/664.html

With an easy index of the 74 chapters of the revised edition.

Soon I will have the first 30 chapters of the revised edition of "Looking for Answers" on tcreader.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9467 on: July 08, 2007, 10:15:05 pm »
Excellent, Louise!  The new journal is already marked in my favorites. 


When they let go of each other, Colson gave him a wink and a smirk. “I like kissin ya better when yer wearin that uniform.”

“I’ll have it on when ya get back.”

“You better.”


Love that ending!   :)

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9468 on: July 09, 2007, 05:53:58 am »
and now... for the beginning of...

Looking for Answers

http://tcreader.livejournal.com/24162.html  it starts where the 'old' Taking chances left off, which is now Looking for Answers Chapter 19
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9469 on: July 10, 2007, 10:43:54 am »
The "new" Looking for Answers begins here, with Chapter 1

http://tcreader.livejournal.com/2007/07/09/#item19653

Leslie
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