Author Topic: lovable subtle details  (Read 277900 times)

Offline starboardlight

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #150 on: May 28, 2006, 11:48:30 pm »
Heya again,

By the way David, what's the deal with the cute photo you included in your post?  I've seen other people post it here and there.  Is it a "real" photo from some promo shoot, or is it photo-shopped together?  I've always wondered where it came from.



it's photoshopped together. I've seen the original of Jake by himself in some magazine or other.

and yes, I love reading your expression of their moments together. I'm completely with you. For Jack, it's not the sex, but rather it's about the contact.
"To do is to be." Socrates. - "To be is to do." Plato. - "Do be do be do" Sinatra.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #151 on: June 02, 2006, 04:48:35 am »
I found another lovable subtle detail:

"ain't no reigns on this one" I could melt on how Ennis says that (or how Heath delivers the line - pick out which description you prefer  :) ). And a second later, he does a kind of a very little sigh. It's not actually a sigh, it's unvoiced, more like letting the air out like "phhhhh..."
It shows Ennis's state of mind: giving up (can't fix it), resigning, and being emotionally exhausted by his thoughts and speech. Just by one little "phhhh". Makes this scene even more poignant. I love this sound. So sad but so sweet.

(Hope this is not old news for you. But those dubbing-technicians let it out in the German version  >:( . They also let out some of Ennis's thank yous and half of the humming. I'm still detecting differences between both versions with each viewing).

« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 05:01:58 am by Penthesilea »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #152 on: June 02, 2006, 08:40:23 am »
"ain't no reigns on this one" I could melt on how Ennis says that (or how Heath delivers the line - pick out which description you prefer  :) ). And a second later, he does a kind of a very little sigh. It's not actually a sigh, it's unvoiced, more like letting the air out like "phhhhh..."
It shows Ennis's state of mind: giving up (can't fix it), resigning, and being emotionally exhausted by his thoughts and speech. Just by one little "phhhh". Makes this scene even more poignant. I love this sound. So sad but so sweet.

Oh, yeah, Penth! I love that moment, too. And that's a really good way to describe it. He looks so sad. And as Jack is caressing his face, there's also a tiny hint that he's allowing himself to relax a bit as he's comforted by Jack.

Offline David

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #153 on: June 02, 2006, 09:17:33 am »
For me it is all about the evening Ennis waits for Jack to show up.    Haven't we all been that anxious for a special person to arrive?   :)


Offline nakymaton

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #154 on: June 02, 2006, 10:49:11 am »
Hey, David, you know what I really love about that scene? A moment later, those little worry lines on Ennis's forehead melt away, and Ennis looks like he's going to simultaneously cry and smile at the same time.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #155 on: June 02, 2006, 11:41:11 am »
Hey, David, you know what I really love about that scene? A moment later, those little worry lines on Ennis's forehead melt away, and Ennis looks like he's going to simultaneously cry and smile at the same time.

Once again, Mel, a very good description of his expression.

Hey David and Mel, you know what I really love about that scene? Every single thing! Oh, except for the Alma parts, but I can fast-forward through those (and maybe reverse a few times to replay some of the others!).

Offline bkamberger

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #156 on: June 02, 2006, 01:31:37 pm »
A few points that struck me upon re-viewing last night:

1. When Jack is simulating for Ennis the experience of being on a bucking bull, he says (this is probably a paraphrase), "He's tossing me up to high heaven...but I'm not gonna let him dashboard me." The first phrase is an interesting reversal of his notion that guys like him and Ennis will "march off to hell" at the Last Judgment: clearly, riding the bulls is the closest Jack feels to heaven, even if he always ends up being dashed to earth. But I'm still sorting out the resonance of the second phrase. It suggests a car's dashboard, and of course both Ennis' parents and possibly Jack himself are killed as a result of a car malfunction. But it also suggests "paradise by the dashboard light" and the Meatloaf song of that name, in which a horny young man is lured into marriage by a woman, as Jack is by Lureen.

2. When Ennis says his "one shot thing" and "I ain't queer" lines, he is facing away from the camera. This suggests to me he's in deep denial: not only can he not look Jack (or us) in the face when he says this, but he's effectively rendering himself "faceless" by maintaining this straight facade. Jack, in contrast, is shown full-face when he replies "nobody's business but ours" and "me neither" - all the better to see the little facials tics that suggest he's lying to keep in Ennis' good graces, but also suggesting that even in dishonesty, Jack is more "open" than Ennis.

3. When Jack is bucked off the bull and seems in danger of being trampled, the announcer shouts, "Send in the clowns!" This scene occurs nearly a decade before Stephen Sondheim wrote the song of that name, but I couldn't help considering its lyrics and how they apply to our boys. Here they are:

Isn't it rich?
Aren't we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground
You in mid-air
Send in the clowns
 
Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around
One who can't move
Where are the clowns?
Send in the clowns
 
Just when I stopped
Opening doors
Finally knowing the one
That I wanted was yours
Making my entrance again
With my usual flair
Sure of my lines
No one is there

Don't you love farce?
My fault, I fear
I thought that you want what I want
Sorry, my dear
But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns
Don't bother
They're here

Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer?
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns
Well maybe
Next year

4. When L.D. says "Rodeo can get" the boxes of formula, he tosses the car keys to Jack the same way Joe Aguirre tossed the watch to Ennis. Annie Proulx says this gesture indicated that Aguirre thought Ennis "wasn't worth the reach," and that would go double for L.D. and Jack.

5. As Ennis is leaving for the first "fishing trip," Alma looks out the window and hears Jack say, "I'm starving. Let's get something to eat." She starts crying at that point, perhaps partly because she realizes that Ennis' claim that Jack isn't the restaurant type was yet one more lie, and partly because she now grasps that Ennis wouldn't even consider asking her to fix something for them (and hence, in a way, doesn't need her any more). The latter thought, in fact, may explain her utter lack of sympathy for him in the "dinner's on the stove" scene.

6. When Alma suggests that Ennis pursue a job at the power company, he scoffs, "As clumsy as I am, I'd probably get electrocuted." We usually think of Jack as the clumsy one, so could this be more than just a dodge, but a clue that Ennis has already linked himself with Jack in his mind? (The irony of Jack's death, if one believes it was an accident, makes this all the more poignant.)

7. When Ennis first dances with Cassie, they're right next to a woman covered in tattoos. I couldn't help being reminded of the tattooed bikers Ennis beats up at the Fourth of July picnic. There, he was protecting the women and children from the unwanted advances of sexual predators; here, he's putting himself in danger of a sexual situation with a woman that, deep down, is unwanted, and which will end up being equally destructive, on an emotional level, for all concerned.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 02:35:48 pm by bkamberger »

Offline David

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #157 on: June 02, 2006, 02:41:41 pm »
Hey, David, you know what I really love about that scene? A moment later, those little worry lines on Ennis's forehead melt away, and Ennis looks like he's going to simultaneously cry and smile at the same time.

Yup.  I agree.   Ennis's whole face lights up when Jack arrives!    Even when he is introducing Jack to Alma.



Also, notice how bright the room is in this scene.   Previously it was cloudy and gray.   Jack shows up and the whole room lights up!     Is this symbolic that Jack is the light in Ennis's dull life?



Oh, and I did catch the part about Breakfast.   Does Alma suggest that Jack come in for breakfast or coffee at least?      Then to hear Jack ask him the same thing and Ennis is happy to go out and eat with Jack!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #158 on: June 02, 2006, 04:06:46 pm »
Wow, bkamberger, lots of good observations. And you're only on your second post? Awesome. And welcome!

I especially like this one

When Ennis first dances with Cassie, they're right next to a woman covered in tattoos. I couldn't help being reminded of the tattooed bikers Ennis beats up at the Fourth of July picnic. There, he was protecting the women and children from the unwanted advances of sexual predators; here, he's putting himself in danger of a sexual situation with a woman that, deep down, is unwanted, and which will end up being equally destructive, on an emotional level, for all concerned.

The issue of the tattooed woman came up on another thread and various explanations for her presence were tossed around. (The one I found most convincing was the observation that nobody is paying much attention to the woman, even though she is certainly unusual, suggesting that maybe Ennis is being too paranoid in thinking everybody is "suspects" or would disapprove of him). But I hadn't heard your idea before and it's intriguing.

I also liked your point about Jack suggesting a bite to eat after Ennis has told Alma Jack wasn't the restaurant type AND rejected her offer of coffee. Really twists the knife, hunh.

Offline PatSinnott

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #159 on: June 04, 2006, 02:45:29 pm »
I posted on this at the beginning of this thread.  It takes place in the divorce scene, and Ennis starts to shed a tear in his left eye.  Here is a photo of it...   Double click on the photo to make it larger and you'll see the tear.
..yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.