Author Topic: lovable subtle details  (Read 286134 times)

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #390 on: April 30, 2007, 01:02:29 am »
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It seems like a bad sign that they would turn to a joint AND whiskey in order to relax during this late camping trip.

From the way they handle it (Jack lights it & passes it to Ennis, who looks as if it may be his first hit ever) it appears to me that it's mainly Jack's crutch.  In other words, Jack is so stressed and world-worn at that point that he needs more than the usual intoxicant.

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You would think that just being together would be enough to relax them.

Jack is so blatantly unhappy at that point. Being by the lake then with Ennis is no longer even a momentary cure.   :(

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #391 on: April 30, 2007, 01:07:38 am »
. . . Which brings me to a detail I always wanted to point out:  when they are seen in their last intimate embrace that night, Jack's hand is out of the sleeping bag, reaching away from Ennis.

I never cared to get immersed in the "did he quit Ennis or not" debate.  But it seems that the more you read on this film, the less likely it is that any detail is insignificant.  The blocking of that motionless scene nudges me further toward the "quit" camp, sadly.  (Though Ennis would always be the love of his life. I think the proper phrase would be "give up on" rather than "quit".)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 12:41:24 pm by LauraGigs »

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #392 on: April 30, 2007, 09:32:50 pm »
. . . Which brings me to a detail I always wanted to point out:  when they are seen in their last intimate embrace that night, Jack's hand is out of the sleeping bag, reaching away from Ennis.

I never cared to get immersed in the "did he quit Ennis or not" debate.  But it seems that the more you read on this film, the less likely it is that any detail is insignificant.  The blocking of that motionless scene nudges me further toward the "quit" camp, sadly.  (Though Ennis would always be the love of his life. I think the proper phrase would be "give up on" rather than "quit".)

The position of Jack's had is a great detail to notice in TS3!  I'm sure the position of how a person sleeps can be taken as a sign of their state of mind (maybe unacknowledged even by the person when they're awake).  The fact that Jack's hand is doing the opposite thing from TS1 in combination with other things like the lack of moon and the discussion of snow (and the joint!) all add up to an uneasy feeling for sure.  People have focused a lot on the fact that Ennis is spooning Jack and has his arm comfortably over him (also the opposite of how he reacted to the initial moments of TS1)... and I think Ennis's position is often cited as a positive sign.  But, am I correct in thinking that his brow is a little furrowed?

While Jack's hand position definitely seems to be a negative sign... I still don't believe that he quit Ennis.  I just really don't.  I think he says he doesn't know how to quit Ennis.  Even if on some intellectual or rational level Jack had determined that leaving Ennis was the "right thing to do" for some reason...  I don't really believe he would have had the will-power or heart to go through with it.  I think Ennis would have been even less capable of leaving Jack.  For what it's worth.
 :-\ :'(
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Casey Cornelius

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #393 on: April 30, 2007, 11:37:43 pm »
I missed the equivalent of this thread on the IMDb board - thanks for starting it here, Amanda.

I haven't traipsed through all of the previous posts, so the following might be repeating something
someone else has said.
There's a wonderful, easily missed moment in the first scene just before Agurre opens the trailer door to snap the first spoken line in the film, "If you pair of deuces....scrawny asses in here, pronto."
Jack had been shaving before Aguirre drove up [discretely checking out Ennis in the side mirror] and had hurriedly wiped away the remnants of shaving cream off of his face as Aguirre's car barelled up and the latter had stormed into the trailer.
 As the two boys watch with baited breath to see if and when Aguirre will deign to come back out and call them in, the viewer can just barely discern Jack in a long shot from the rear nervously wiping his face again as Aguirre is seen walking back and forth in the trailer and Ennis has his back to Jack.  I like to think that Jack is furtively wiping his face again not for the sake of impressing Aguirre, but this time to make sure he looks his best for Ennis.
It's not mentioned in any of the versions of the three screenplays I have, so credit must be given to Ang Lee and Jake Gyllenhaal for this detail in a film with countless such subtle and meaningful touches.
Casey Cornelius
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 08:30:38 pm by Casey Cornelius »
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand ...

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #394 on: April 30, 2007, 11:56:02 pm »
Hi Casey!

So great to see you throw your hat in the ring here!  Yes, the old thread back at IMDb was called Notice Anything So Subtle and it was much in the same spirit as this thread.  This is most definitely a "revival" thread that was part of the initial enthusiasm of finding a new home here at BetterMost but still missing some of the old comforts of the old board.  I wish I could remember who started Notice Anything So Subtle.  If anyone remembers!  I'd be really happy to know.

Anyway, I don't recall people discussing Jack's extra little gesture after shaving and prior to the meeting with Aguirre much before.  But, I know what you mean.  I think how a viewer interprets things like that dovetails with whether or not the viewer believes that Jack and Ennis were flirting from the very beginning.  I do... and Jack probably much more consciously than Ennis.

cheers
Amanda
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 12:22:06 am by atz75 »
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #395 on: May 01, 2007, 12:08:57 am »
LOL, who here remembers that great old thread Explain the Horse Spinning Scene with Jack from IMDb? Talk about a detail oriented thread!   :laugh:
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Casey Cornelius

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #396 on: May 01, 2007, 12:17:22 am »
HI Amanda,

I believe that the Notice Anything So Subtle thread's content has been reposted by an indefatiguable poster named
True Oracle of Phoenix.  Can't wade through the entire IMDb board right now to find it, but I'm sure a version of the original thread is still up there.

Casey
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Offline nic

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #397 on: May 01, 2007, 05:59:30 am »
It's funny how a film full of so many subtle details also packs a huge punch, enough to affect thousands of people profoundly.

After seeing BBM, I started to wonder if all films had this level of subtext that I'd missed.  I think it's safe to say that they clearly don't! It has given me an insight into the film-making process as well which is an added bonus. 

I'd better plug in a subtle detail here I guess. This maybe doesn't strictly qualify but I like the way the way Ennis removes Jack's hand when Jack is tending to his headwound after the bear incident (although I don't really like it that Ennis feels he has to do this of course). He doesn't just bat it away but handles his fingers in what actually appears quite an awkward way if you try to reproduce it.  I believe this is the first time they touch hands after their introduction, so fairly significant.   
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #398 on: May 01, 2007, 06:07:37 am »

 As the two boys watch with baited breath to see if and when Aguirre will deign to come back out and call them in, the viewer can just barely discern Jack in a rear long shot nervously wiping his face again as Aguirre is seen walking back and forth in the trailer and Ennis has his back to Jack.  I like to think that Jack is furtively wiping his face again not for the sake of impressing Aguirre, but this time to make sure he looks his best for Ennis.

Hey Casey, good to see you here  :).
I never noticed the second wiping by Jack. Will look out for it the next time I see the movie.

Back to Jack's hand position in the last night in tent:



Well, when you sleep on your side like this, it seems the most natural thing to do with your hand for me. I don't read it as reaching away from Ennis.
But naturally this is debatable. You could even interpret Jack's hand as reaching towards Ennis's hand.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #399 on: May 01, 2007, 09:38:33 am »
Somehow I've never been able to see that scene as anything but sweet, though I know it's also full of foreboding.