Author Topic: lovable subtle details  (Read 246060 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #490 on: March 17, 2008, 12:55:07 pm »
Remember, we catalogued all the Ennis/Jack stage right, stage left back in September of 06?? Here's a link to it, and I don't think we made any definitive conclusions:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg83363.html#msg83363
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #491 on: March 17, 2008, 12:59:03 pm »
Remember, we catalogued all the Ennis/Jack stage right, stage left back in September of 06?? Here's a link to it, and I don't think we made any definitive conclusions:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg83363.html#msg83363


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  I guess I'd forgotten that thread Sister Mod!  After all that time, the left/right trend is definitely still something that jumps out when thinking about patterns while watching BBM.  I don't know that this has any huge or particular symbolic meaning (or a singular meaning)... but it just seems to suggest how carefully and deliberately composed BBM is in general as a film.

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Offline brokeplex

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #492 on: March 17, 2008, 05:46:35 pm »
Broke, a lot of us share that obsession. I know of one person who thinks it's a mirror, literally scene for scene. Personally, I don't think it's quite that symmetrical -- there are reflecting scenes that aren't in perfect opposite sequence, and little mini-mirrors thrown in here and there, to keep the pattern from being too neat.

But definitely there are matching reflected images, the most obvious being the opening scene with Ennis riding in a truck going in one direction at dawn, carrying a bag with two shirts, and the scene near the end of Ennis riding in a truck going in the opposite direction at sunset, carrying a bag with two shirts. In fact, that one is SO obvious it almost seems like a deliberate suggestion to viewers to look for others.




agreed

Offline brokeplex

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #493 on: March 17, 2008, 05:50:48 pm »
I agree that the mirroring/symmetry/palindrome pattern isn't always completely neat and tidy.  But, there are certainly lots of recurring patterns (as we've all noticed)... sometimes having to do with content/narrative/dialogue and sometimes having to do with subtle things as in how certain shots are composed.

On Friday night while watching BBM the idea of certain shots being composed in similar ways really struck me.  Particularly in the examples on Brokeback where Jack is either standing to the right in the frame (or is entering into the frame from the right) and Ennis is either mounting his horse on the left/already sitting on his horse to the left or riding away to the left.  The three examples of this that I can think of are (1) at the time of the job switch... Ennis is with his horse to the left and Jack approaches from the right and says "you won't get much sleep..." (2) the morning after TS1 (3) the moment immediately following the dozy embrace.

I think the interesting point to bear in mind is that there are patterns... of many kinds and varieties.  And, sometimes different patterns overlap or intertwine.  And, none of this is absolutely precise all the time.  There are some examples that seem pretty precise (like the trucks driving horizontally across the screen/landscape at the beginning at end, but in opposite directions... and like the paper bags at the beginning and at the end) but precision is certainly not the rule.




agreed, the palindrome pattern is not neat and clinically exact, but it is so apparent that clearly it was done deliberately to give the film a structure of parallels. The film is guiding us to think in terms of the twin lives and how they interact and repeat. I personally believe that the palindrome effect is one of the subliminal reasons why the film has such a deep impact, certainly I have recognized that this is responsible for much of the film's effect on me.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #494 on: June 07, 2008, 08:44:15 pm »

I was looking at stills from the bar scene today and the cigarette in the ashtray between J & E all of a sudden really struck me.  It's placed so carefully!

I love it. 8)



« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 11:39:27 pm by atz75 »
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Offline Lynne

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #495 on: June 07, 2008, 11:19:10 pm »
I love this thread!

:)
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Offline Katie77

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #496 on: June 08, 2008, 04:53:04 am »
I was looking at stills from the bar scene today and the cigarette in the ashtray between J & E all of a sudden really struck me.  It's placed so carefully!

I love it. 8)





Never noticed that before.....and now I have, makes me wonder IF either one of them would really have sat their ciggie in the ashtray. I am a smoker, and if I were sitting at a bar I would hold the cigarette and just use the ashtray to flick the ash, and butt it out when I had finished it, but I doubt if I would sit it in the ashtray like that. Would be interested to know if any other smokers on here would either.

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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #497 on: June 08, 2008, 04:22:02 pm »
Never noticed that before.....and now I have, makes me wonder IF either one of them would really have sat their ciggie in the ashtray. I am a smoker, and if I were sitting at a bar I would hold the cigarette and just use the ashtray to flick the ash, and butt it out when I had finished it, but I doubt if I would sit it in the ashtray like that. Would be interested to know if any other smokers on here would either.



That's an interesting point.  I'm not a smoker, but I can see why it would be unappealing to rest a cigarette on a public ashtray.  I'd have to watch the scene in motion again to see exactly how the dynamics of the motions regarding the cigarettes work.  Previously the motions of the boys' fingers on the beer bottles have been noted as very choreographed.  And, since Ennis's request to borrow Jack's lighter has always been seen as significant... the cigarettes themselves might be worth considering more carefully.

I think the fact that it's a fresh cigarette is important... and probably was supplied by Jack.  I think the positioning of it... pointing in between J & E is also one of the key things here.

The suggestiveness of the cigarette reminds me of at least a couple other points in the film... including the close-up shot of Jack with a cig in his mouth with Ennis bathing in the background.  And, then of course the famous use of cigarettes in the Randall scene.

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/4694346-711.jpg" border="0" />



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Offline optom3

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #498 on: June 08, 2008, 09:26:58 pm »
Never noticed that before.....and now I have, makes me wonder IF either one of them would really have sat their ciggie in the ashtray. I am a smoker, and if I were sitting at a bar I would hold the cigarette and just use the ashtray to flick the ash, and butt it out when I had finished it, but I doubt if I would sit it in the ashtray like that. Would be interested to know if any other smokers on here would either.

Wel spotted.I am a smoker (oops) and would never leave  a cigarette like that.Mainly because I would just end up with smoke in my eyes,but also becuase it is a tactile thing as well.I sit and twiddle.Anytime I have given up eg when pregnant, I used to twiddle a pen instead. All smokers I know hang onto their cigarettes.
It is interesting too, that asking for a light is a classic pick up tactic.I even had it used on me about a month ago.I was so pleased,pathetic I know,but such little things can make a girls day!!!!!



Offline Gabreya

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #499 on: August 12, 2008, 07:41:30 pm »
I loved it when the second tent scene happened, Jack had gently put Ennis's hat to the side and caressed his cheek before he tenderly kissed him. I will always love their first kiss. It so hot yet sweet. Even after their lips parted for a second where there was a tiny bit of saliva line in between them. :-*