Author Topic: lovable subtle details  (Read 338987 times)

Offline Mikaela

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #540 on: June 07, 2009, 08:55:31 am »
Thank you. That's what I thought it was. But the more I thought about it, the stranger I thought that name was.

Guess that's one of the subtle details then; - Ennis gets beaten black and blue to complement that Black and Blue Eagle?

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #541 on: June 07, 2009, 02:51:29 pm »
Thank you. That's what I thought it was. But the more I thought about it, the stranger I thought that name was.

Guess that's one of the subtle details then; - Ennis gets beaten black and blue to complement that Black and Blue Eagle?

I never thought of the name of the bar being strange. But you're right Mikaela. Maybe 'Black and Blue Eagle' is a more common name for a bar in the west. Who knows?

And you're right with your observation about the fight. I makes you wonder whether the name of the bar is a coincidence or not? Somehow I don't think so.
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #542 on: June 07, 2009, 03:27:30 pm »
And you're right with your observation about the fight. I makes you wonder whether the name of the bar is a coincidence or not? Somehow I don't think so.


Since the Black and Blue Eagle bar comes directly from AP, I'd bet something on the side of "no coincidence".

The sentence from the short story:

"He went to the Black and Blue Eagle bar that night, got drunk, had a short dirty fight and left."


- being beaten black and blue
- the eagle feather in Jack's hat


More referrences to flying/wings/creatures with wings:
- ministering angel, wings folded
- only the two of them on the mountain, flying in the euphoric, bitter air, looking down on the hawk's back (paraphrasing)


Offline optom3

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #543 on: June 07, 2009, 08:23:42 pm »
One thing has always puzzled me,the absence of an eagle feather in Jack's hat in the film. In the S.S the feather is mentioned almost as an indication of Jack's shooting prowess, "he had shot an eagle, he said"
In the film the opposite seems true, Jack is incapable of shooting anything.
Back to the S.S again and in the motel scene, Ennis is descibed as "spreadeagled" after sex. As always there seems so many tie ins. Not forgetting in the S.S Jack tells Ennis he has "just shot my airplane out a the sky"
So many references to flying in both the film and story.
Hmm may have to go and ponder some more.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #544 on: June 07, 2009, 09:19:40 pm »
This may help: read "On buckets, eagles, impatience and..."

and this is where the eagle/horse analogy is first mentioned:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg12789.html#msg12789

Offline optom3

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #545 on: June 08, 2009, 10:50:47 am »
This may help: read "On buckets, eagles, impatience and..."

and this is where the eagle/horse analogy is first mentioned:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.msg12789.html#msg12789

Thanks for that, I am amazed that after all this time I still find new things to ponder. It has become as much of a classic for me as Shakespesre, word and symbolism endlessly scrutinised and analysed.
The bucket analogies were particularly interesting, but then another question started to form,to kick the bucket is to die, and I am trying to decide whether the bucket floating away is symbolic of their relationship slowly slipping away, or if it also is a warning of the demise of Jack. Either way it is terribly sad.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #546 on: June 09, 2009, 09:38:30 am »
Another subtle detail that I love is the sight of Jack's face sleeping peacefully in the red dawn at the beginning of the day after the FNIT, befoore the camera pans to Ennis waking and sitting up. I'm so glad Lee included that. Proulx, of course, is all business in that scene: "Ennis woke in red dawn with his pants around his knees, a top-grade headache, and Jack butted against him;"

Offline optom3

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #547 on: June 09, 2009, 06:24:02 pm »
I am sure I have mentioned this before but I love the last time we ever see the boys in a tent.They are asleep and Ennis has his arm protectively around Jack. How ironic that he so often seemed to want to protect Jack and look after him. So many little touches that we do for someone we care for,seasoning his food, trying to order soup,bringing the horses to one of their fishing trips.
Yet  in spite of his determination to protect Jack, he could not save him from his fate. The final tent scene cuts me so badly, as we know after the first viewing, what will be the final outcome.
How often do we act from the best of intentions and yet those very actions designed to protect our loved ones, can ultimately be their undoing. That can be a pretty heavy burden to shoulder. What a lot of guilt some of us have to carry around for what sometimes seems like a life sentence. Well c'est la vie, you can't wind back the hands of time. So you just have to bear it.
OT slightly, but I will tell all my kids, if you find love no matter when and where, be brave and grab it with both hands. You may not get the chance again.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #548 on: December 03, 2009, 04:40:11 pm »
Maybe Ennis was TOO protective of Jack; Jack complained about being kept on a "short leash" and you can't keep birds of the air on a leash, especially those capable of driving 14 hours if they have a craving to see you.

Offline tango

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Re: lovable subtle details
« Reply #549 on: December 03, 2009, 05:29:05 pm »
I think Jack was protective of Ennis too.  Until their final meeting, Jack never tells Ennis about Mexico though he's being going for years, nor does he tell him about his rancher "friend" down in Texas. He knows both those things would devastate Ennis and wants to protect him.  I think the short leash comment refers to how Ennis gives just enough of himself, time, sex, affection to keep Jack hoping and coming back for more and Jack realizes it.

I'm reminded of a line in a song -  "that's just the price you pay for the chains you refuse". Sometimes people refuse comittment or offers of love because they don't want to be tied down or are afraid, etc, thinking another option is preferable. And in the end, they still pay a price. Sometimes even a bigger price as in the case of Ennis. Every choice has consequences.

I think men express love in different ways so the small things they did for each other isn't unusual.  I think it was consistent with their personalities, time period and financial situations.  Men think practical things and actions are declarations of love. My husband interprets spending hours doing yardwork as a sign that he loves his family. His thinking is, if he didn't love us, he wouldn't find it important for us to live in an attractive house, nor spend the time doing the yardwork.  Like once how I said, that's a pretty watch when reading a magazine and he asked to see and then remembered and bought it for me for Christmas. So while I might find an "I love You" a more direct way of communicating how he feels, I take the declarations wherever I can find them.