Author Topic: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?  (Read 74510 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #150 on: December 11, 2007, 02:50:22 pm »
Alma Jr though?  Although I have a hard time believing she knew her dad was gay until after the timeline of the film, I do think she would be okay with it.

Yes. I really should clarify that I meant to say it strikes me as wishful thinking that she knew by the time of the final scene of the movie and was OK with it by that time. Sorry for my lack of clarity!

She may well have come to know "after the timeline of the film" and have been accepting of it. Fortunately for my friend, even his daughter came around eventually.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #151 on: December 11, 2007, 07:18:09 pm »
Ineedcrayons, you do not take away this (below and other lines from others) why, even if it is not the subject, but you take my words away often? Why you think for me? You even put words like they are mine, but are not!

Why accept this then: I'm afraid I tend to see the idea that Junior knew her father was gay, and even more was OK with it, as wishful thinking. But then I also come to this question from a life experience of having had a friend, now dead five years from metastatic lung cancer, who had a daughter who had a very difficult time accepting that her father was gay. And she didn't have to figure it out for herself, she was told (perhaps at an age too young to understand, but nevertheless she was told). And this wasn't small town Wyoming thirty years ago, this was the East Coast in the 1990s. They weren't reconciled until near the end of my friend's life. Thankfully, he and his daughter did have a good relationship for the last few years of his life.
...

I see nothing against his words, as I use them as an example... as I do the same as he does. If he can add something like that, then why I can not? Because I am a gay man?

You bewilder me! There is nothing like truth, I say! To those who take offence, that is their problem, and should have the decentcy to tell me about it! I am decent enough to accept their words when I find them offensive! Most times or all times, it is just not understading! You taking me away my freedom of speech to me, is like being anti-gay to me!

I await your answer with open arms so far,

hugs!!

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2007, 07:25:28 pm »
Even if Alma Jnr did not understand......even if she was not OK with it......it would not necessarily mean that she  did not love her dad......kids are like parents, they love unconditionally....kids dont realize they do, until they are parents themslves usually...but they do love their parents, no matter what.

Lets not make  a martyr out of Alma Jnr.....she was 19 by the end of the movie....at that time in her life, she was completely wrapped up in Kurt and the life she was gonna have with him....she loved her Daddy, of course she did, but the visit to his trailer was more about would he come to her wedding, than to come for just a father daughter visit...by his lack of knowledge about Kurt, it was obvious that these visits were not too regular.

And if she knew or thought he was gay, she would have kept it a secret...she would have maybe even felt embarrassed about it....cant blame her for that.....Ennis did the same thing and he too was in some ways embarrassed about it.

Kids of 19 dont do a lot of soul searching about their parents, not to say they dont worry about them, they get involved in their own lives and their own friends...Alma Jnr was probably no different..........



Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #153 on: December 11, 2007, 07:46:27 pm »
Katie, you say: And if she knew or thought he was gay, she would have kept it a secret...she would have maybe even felt embarrassed about it....
............................................

May I agree with you that Jr. if she knew that her father was bi or gay, would have kept it a secret, likely??
It is a question one can pose if she did mention it to anyone, maybe?
...

But why she would have felt embarassed? Please explain!
...........................................

You really think that a kid of 19, does not soul search about their parents? Some do, I say! Especially, in the situation she is in, as her father was divorsed, may I say!

Awaiting your news and from others,

hugs!

Offline delalluvia

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #154 on: December 11, 2007, 07:57:57 pm »
.she loved her Daddy, of course she did, but the visit to his trailer was more about would he come to her wedding, than to come for just a father daughter visit...by his lack of knowledge about Kurt, it was obvious that these visits were not too regular.

And if she knew or thought he was gay, she would have kept it a secret...she would have maybe even felt embarrassed about it....cant blame her for that.....Ennis did the same thing and he too was in some ways embarrassed about it.

Kids of 19 dont do a lot of soul searching about their parents, not to say they dont worry about them, they get involved in their own lives and their own friends...Alma Jnr was probably no different..

Agree.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #155 on: December 11, 2007, 08:08:16 pm »
Katie, you say: And if she knew or thought he was gay, she would have kept it a secret...she would have maybe even felt embarrassed about it....

if she knew that her father was bi or gay, would have kept it a secret, likely??
It is a question one can pose if she did mention it to anyone, maybe?

Why would she if she knew?  That's not exactly news that would be welcome to be spread around in those parts.  Obviously if she was told or by some miracle she figured it out herself, she would know/realize that her parents certainly had kept the secret so why would she spread the news around?

Quote
But why she would have felt embarassed? Please explain!

Because the only gay men she would have known about - had she known what being gay actually was - were the stereotypes of mincing fancy boys on TV.  She knows her father as the Marlboro Man, strong, silent, macho type.  Her boyfriend/fiance is very likely a strong macho type, as well.  Fancy boys are nothing to be proud of in societies where strong macho men are admired.  She may love her father, but like most teens, anything that detracts from a parent being perfect is an embarrassment to them.  She is still a kid after all.

Quote
You really think that a kid of 19, does not soul search about their parents? Some do, I say! Especially, in the situation she is in, as her father was divorsed, may I say!

Awaiting your news and from others,

hugs!

Many don't.  I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective.  I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.


Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #156 on: December 11, 2007, 10:55:10 pm »
Thanks delalluvia!

I just read your replies. Glad that you do. They sound good. I will reread.

For now, you say:I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective.  I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.


............

I prefer to think that Jr. is indeed introspective, to which degree I do not know, in the movie... as she seems to be so to me. Does she not seem to talk about her father trying to help or especially understand the girl that her dad danced with at the bar... that one that wanted to marry divorced Ennis?? !! I forgot her name of the one who insisted to dance with Ennis; one who worked as an bar waitress, was it?? That is only one example where she helps other persons!

Awaiting your news and help on this,

hugs!!

Offline underdown

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #157 on: December 11, 2007, 11:09:07 pm »
Wow, this thread was supposed to be a 'Topic Of The Week', and it has been running at the box office for over 2 weeks, now.
True, it has digressed somewhat. It is obviously stirring a lot of deep emotions.

Isn't that what Bettermost is all about? Isn't the motto 'a catalyst for positive change'?

In my book, a catalyst is supposed to cause a reaction, and this topic cetainly has. If the discussion had been confined strictly to the subject, it would not achieve half as much. But there have been comments and questions moved, or deleted. (?)

Now, I am a straight male. One of the few on Bettermost. I do not discriminate against gay or bi people, nor against those for whom this topic raises deep emotions. Nor am I offended in any way. Emotions are healthy: including yours, mine, and those of anyone else who posts in response to these discussion threads.

To Artiste, this thread and the discussion of whether or not Alma Jnr was embarrassed by her Dad's homosexulality may raise the question 'why should anyone be embarrassed by someone because they are gay?' And that becomes emotional. So what? That is a valid question by a thinking person, and a natural result of the thread being a catalyst. As it should be, unless the Bettermost motto is meaningless. Why on earth that should be 'off topic' is beyond me. There were comments directed to an individual member that were deleted, but I am sure they were directed at an emotion being expressed, not to the character.

As has been suggested earlier, Alma Jnr was in a time and place where being open about her Dad's homosexulality, if she really understood it properly anyway, was dynamite. Why is it not ok to try to apply that catalyst of thought to Quebec, in the present, or anywhere else in the world, to pose a question ?
 
It is just as natural that others might react to questions like that, and the subject could raise their emotions, too.   Well ... hell, that's good, isn't it?

I could take offence that people make assumptions simply because I am straight and therefore obviously 'just like all the rest of them', but don't, because I know it is usually the bigots and people who just want to be noticed who criticise the most, and the genuinely loving who are belted with tyre irons by those people who blindly follow the carping and criticising loudmouths.

I don't know any gay men with 19 year-old daughters. It must be difficult for them to know how they think towards their Dad, although sisters are something of an insight.
I have two daughters who were 19 not so long ago, (twins) one of whom accepts me totally as I am; a straight male who loves and likes and feels, sometimes loves the wrong people, and makes mistakes. The other is critical because I am single again, thinks I embarrass her, and therefore must prefer people outside of her family.

Do you think, Artiste, it could sometimes be just as hard being a straight male?

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #158 on: December 11, 2007, 11:40:56 pm »
Thanks underdown!

Be assured that I am happy that you are a straight male and on here at Bettermost. I am also glad that there are some or many gay men, lesbians, bi, straight women, and others. It is indeed great to talk, each with his/her views and, details as examples when possible. I have learned much  from others here, gays and straights and others!!! And seek to continue. And I am grateful to all!! Even for times that bewilded me from some!!

You are right that Bettermost must continue to give us freedom of expression... if I read you right. I feel that it does, most of the time and at other moments, I know that I am helped and that I helped too others. May that continue... always!!

We have found ways to help each other and others. And my wish is to discover other wondrous methoeds too!!
I am sure that Bettermost also saves lives! Plus it makes us all happier somehow!!

I do not understand some of your expression, so I will reread and will try, and pose you some question, if I may?

For now, you say this: Do you think, Artiste, it could sometimes be just as hard being a straight male?
 
 
 

..............

Underdown, do you think that your daughter (like Jr. here) would know that you would be gay if you were Ennis?

To answer you underdown, it is hard for straight males, yes; harder than gay males?

Straight do not have always the fear of getting killed because they are straights??

Will always be happy to get your news,

hugs!


Offline delalluvia

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #159 on: December 12, 2007, 08:42:26 am »
Thanks delalluvia!

I just read your replies. Glad that you do. They sound good. I will reread.

For now, you say:I don't put Junior up there with being very introspective.  I know others don't feel this way, but I consider Junior to be just a simple, small town, not very deep, very average blue-collar girl.


............

I prefer to think that Jr. is indeed introspective, to which degree I do not know, in the movie... as she seems to be so to me. Does she not seem to talk about her father trying to help or especially understand the girl that her dad danced with at the bar... that one that wanted to marry divorced Ennis?? !! I forgot her name of the one who insisted to dance with Ennis; one who worked as an bar waitress, was it?? That is only one example where she helps other persons!

Awaiting your news and help on this,

hugs!!

No, not really.  Junior didn't say anything to Cassie.  It was Cassie who initiated the conversation.  Had it been up to Junior, she probably wouldn't have spoken to Cassie about her dad at all.