Author Topic: Why the Lie?  (Read 52336 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2006, 01:06:53 pm »
From the story:

"I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H. ain't nothing like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinkin about you. You do it with other guys, Jack?" "Shit no", said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own.

Now that I have brought the above quotation from the story, I ask you guys, is Proulx implying that Jack had sex with other guys while away from Ennis? I'm not quite sure I understand what the author means with Jack riding more than bulls not rolling his own. 


I think Proulx meant Jack was having sex with other men.  Ang Lee/writers seem to think so as well, hence the scene with Jimbo the clown in the movie.  Jack was actively seeking sex with other men.

Offline opinionista

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2006, 01:14:38 pm »
I think Proulx meant Jack was having sex with other men.  Ang Lee/writers seem to think so as well, hence the scene with Jimbo the clown in the movie.  Jack was actively seeking sex with other men.

Thanks Del. That's what I thought but wasn't 100% sure.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2006, 01:16:10 pm »
all this arguing about "wrang it out" is funny. tiawahcowboy, you're certainly entitled to interpret the phrase how you like, but I don't understand why you're so adamant that other read it the same way you do. In literature, metaphors are very common. An imagery can be used to describe something even though they nothing to do with one another. When Shakespeare wrote "A rose by any other name" he wasn't talking about flowers. He used the phrase to describe Romeo and Juliet's love in the face of family conflict. A phrase can have a surface meaning and many under layers of meanings at the same time.

Listen up, I live in Oklahoma and so did thousands of other people. If you look up the colloquial/regional expression, "wrang it out," you will see that it has to do with some serious thinking about getting the answer to a difficult question and it takes quite a while before one realizes what the real answer was.

In the book/short story, in August 1963, after Ennis and Jack drove (their trucks) away in opposite directions, "within a mile Ennis felt like someone was pulling his guts out hand over hand a yard at at time. He stopped at the side of the road and, in the whirling new snow, tried to puke but nothing came up. He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off."

Then at the 1967 Reunion in the Riverton Siesta Motel room . . . "That summer," said Ennis. "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois. Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights. Too late then by a long, long while."

Ennis did not exactly have a limited vocabulary; he was a man of few words when it came to speaking to strangers and to himself. The expressions, to "figure it out" and to, "wring it out," mean exactly the same thing here in Tiawah.  

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2006, 01:17:04 pm »
Thanks Del. That's what I thought but wasn't 100% sure.

I'm not sure about the specifics though.

'Riding more than bulls' is fairly clear.  I'm not sure about the 'not rolling his own', unless Proulx was using more than one expression for the same thing?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 01:23:54 pm by delalluvia »

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2006, 01:18:28 pm »
Listen up, I live in Oklahoma and so did thousands of other people. If you look up the colloquial/regional expression, "wrang it out," you will see that it has to do with some serious thinking about getting the answer to a difficult question and it takes quite a while before one realizes what the real answer was.

Yes, but neither Ennis/Jack or Proulx are in Oklahoma.  What means one thing in Oklahoma can most certainly mean something else in Wyoming.

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2006, 01:24:48 pm »

I agree with DavidinHardford, in the short story Ennis was definitely referring to masturbating. They were talking about sex at that moment.

From the story:

"I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H. ain't nothing like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinkin about you. You do it with other guys, Jack?" "Shit no", said Jack, who had been riding more than bulls, not rolling his own.

Now that I have brought the above quotation from the story, I ask you guys, is Proulx implying that Jack had sex with other guys while away from Ennis? I'm not quite sure I understand what the author means with Jack riding more than bulls not rolling his own. 


Is the American English language the first language you learned? Or did you learn English after you learned Spanish?

I have noticed in a number of internet groups and forums boads related to Brokeback Mountain, most of the membership in them know very little or almost nothing about how rural people, cowboys and farmers, etc., talk in their everyday lives in the US states of Montana, N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri (western side especially), Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and Wyoming.

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2006, 01:27:48 pm »
Yes, but neither Ennis/Jack or Proulx are in Oklahoma.  What means one thing in Oklahoma can most certainly mean something else in Wyoming.

And what makes you an expert on American Country regional dilects and local expression, ma'am?

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2006, 01:30:13 pm »
Oh, my its really interesting how so many women think they understand everything there is to know about men, including how they think and what they do with themselves while they are thinking.

Offline opinionista

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2006, 01:34:42 pm »
Is the American English language the first language you learned? Or did you learn English after you learned Spanish?

I have noticed in a number of internet groups and forums boads related to Brokeback Mountain, most of the membership in them know very little or almost nothing about how rural people, cowboys and farmers, etc., talk in their everyday lives in the US states of Montana, N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri (western side especially), Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and Wyoming.

I speak English as a second language.

Regarding the "wrang it out" expression I don't know exactly what it means in Oklahoma or anywhere else, to tell you the truth.  I do know, however, that sometimes meanings change according to context, so the expresssion probably has different meanings. It depends on how you use it.

As I posted above, in the short story the expression "wrang it out" comes out when they're talking about sex at the motel, which is why I think Ennis is referring to masturbation. It's pretty clear, in my opinion, even though I speak English as a second language. Besides, I read a translated version of the story and that line was translated into Spanish as masturbation. I'm sure the translators did their job right and did the proper researching in order to translate Proulx's word as accurate as possible.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 08:08:39 am by opinionista »
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2006, 01:35:50 pm »
And what makes you an expert on American Country regional dilects and local expression, ma'am?

Um, if 'wrang out' is - as you stated - an Oklahoma regional/local expression it is therefore, by YOUR definition, not a national expression and thus may not be applicable to Wyoming.

You don't have to be an expert to make that conclusion.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 01:43:45 pm by delalluvia »